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The Way, The Truth & The Life: Testing Jesus Christ - Part 2

August 14, 2016


Part 2 of 3


Is There a Creator and Do Christians Take Him on Blind Faith?

When Jesus was asked which of the commandments is the most important, He answered, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and, Love your neighbor as yourself." Please note, He invites us to use our mental faculty as well. He is not afraid if we do; He actually invites us.

Richard Dawkins, a hardened atheist – who inexplicably hates a god who does not exist for him – wrote, “Faith, being belief that isn’t based on evidence, is the principal vice of any religion.”

In what was His fifth appearance, Jesus was in the midst of his apostles and one of them – Thomas – was not present. Later when the others told Thomas, “We have seen the Lord,” this was his reaction: "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." When Jesus appeared again at the same venue, Thomas was present. And this time Jesus asks Thomas to feel his wounds. It is then that Thomas declares, “My Lord and my God.”

It appears that Richard Dawkins, and others who believe the Christian faith is blind, would be correct since it was Jesus who told the Apostle Thomas after he accepted Jesus as Lord and God, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:28). Did Jesus really mean that people should believe blindly? No, it is far from it.

Verification by tangibly seeing and touching is only one kind of evidence. Believing in the testimony of the ones who have seen is another kind of evidence and it is admissible in courts throughout the world. You don’t see or get to touch, but you believe (or not) what others have told you. In this case, 10 Apostles told Thomas, “We have seen the Lord.”

A judge who presides in a case does not see a crime taking place. He relies on the testimony of the eye witnesses, forensics, and correlates it with the crime. In order to believe, it would be absurd for any judge to ask for a live replay of events.

It is an interesting coincidence that even as I was writing this article, I received from the Consumer Court the verdict – in my favor - of my case against Sony Corporation. The judges weighed what I had brought against Sony and the response from Sony. They also looked into the various communications I had had with Sony and Sony’s response to my emails. Not once did the judges ask to see the professional, expensive, camera - which I claimed the camera to be - that I had purchased from Sony 4 years ago. They were able to establish that there was a camera involved that Sony neither took responsibility of repairing, nor paying compensation for, by looking at the documentary evidence.

If Thomas had believed the other Apostles’ testimony, it would NOT have been considered blind faith. Jesus, while rebuking Thomas, is also telling us that we cannot insist on physical evidence after an event has occurred; He wants us to accept the testimony of those who have seen Him and were with Him when He worked all those miracles; and who also witnessed his death and resurrection. Jesus rebukes Thomas, not because Jesus has anything to lose, but Thomas. At the same time, if Jesus did not care about Thomas, He would have been indifferent to Him. Jesus does not want to lose anyone – that is His magnanimity.

That is why John pleads, “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life... that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us.” (1 John 1:1, 3)

John makes it clear he doesn’t intend non-believers to become members of Christianity with blind faith. He is offering his testimony, along with the testimony of the other apostles, as evidence and reason that calls for rational belief. To the non-believer who questions, why should anyone believe, John is saying, “Because we saw him risen from the dead, we talked to him, we touched him…” This is a far cry from Christianity endorsing blind faith.

It would be legitimate to ask why anyone should believe the testimony of the Gospel writers. This is where the HISTORICAL CONTEXT of what they have testified comes into play. We can then know if the Gospel writers were all hallucinating or even lying. But, if proven right, we have something that is worthy of RATIONAL belief.

Dawkins and people like him who play the same atheistic tune should know that everything they call scientific is not what they themselves have seen or touched. Nobody has seen the big bang, but so many theories are built around this, well, theory. Dawkins admits that he has no clue of the origin of life and yet he insists that life came after the big bang. Mr. Dawkins, if you are an honest person, you will soon see it is atheism that requires blind faith, not Christianity. As Paul Davies writes, “Even the most atheistic scientist accepts as an act of faith the existence of a law-like order in nature that is at least in part comprehensible to us (1995 Templeton Prize Address).” Science has not created any law and order in the universe; science has only discovered what is already there.

When Isaac Newton discovered gravity, he did not say that now he had discovered gravity, there was no need for God. On the other hand, Stephen Hawking says "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing." Yes, Mr. Hawking, now that we have cooking gas, it can and will create food by itself from nothing.

I saw one response to Hawking’s claim that I find very apt. “Is it not circular logic? I mean, how can gravity exist if there is no universe? And if there is no gravity, how can it be the reason for the creation of universe? Also, if the universe doesn't exist, how can it create itself? The very sentence doesn't make sense to me. It seems so absurd and illogical that I've never heard such sentences even in philosophy. On what ground, Stephen Hawking claims this?”

Karlo Broussard, in a recent article has put it so brilliantly, “The faith Christians are called to have in Jesus is not belief without evidence but a RESPONSE TO THE EVIDENCE. It is not ‘a blind impulse of the mind,’ because there are ‘motives of credibility’ - e.g., miracles, prophecies fulfilled, the Church’s growth, the Church’s holiness, and the Church’s stability.”

Broussard adds, “Even belief in God is not a blind impulse of the mind, for there are many good arguments that make God’s existence more REASONABLE than not - even some that demonstrate God’s existence. Unfortunately, many atheists fail to distinguish warranted belief and unwarranted belief, thinking all belief is unwarranted. As a result, some Christians think they have to leave reason at the door of faith, but nothing could be further from the truth.”


One Way or Many

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life.” There is no ambiguity in what He is saying. Jesus did not say that He is saying something truthful or that He knows the way. He is saying HE IS those things.

Did He make it difficult for his followers by removing all other doors, when He narrowed the path to God through one single door – Him? The answer depends on your perspective. If you reach a point and see a fork with three or four roads, it is bound to raise a lot of questions about the road you should be taking.

In a recent episode of Masterchef Australia, a contestant was pitched against a professional chef. Normally they are given ingredients to work with. In this contest, they were told the “pantry is wide open, and the garden is wide open.” This sounds so much better than constricting you with a few ingredients. However, the amateur contestant was heard murmuring, “it is usually easier when we are given ingredients and told what to do.”

One road makes it simple, not difficult – even to Christians who sometimes spend a lot on palmists, astrologers and the like. Jesus’ claim is worth looking into, especially if you are interested in experiencing an intimate relationship with God in the present, and meet Him in the hereafter.


Is God Immutable?

Why it is important to know what religion is the true religion? I think more than at any point of time in history, it is important today. Particularly, as innocent people are pointlessly murdered by people who believe it is willed by God. Again, if God is one, then He can’t be saying two dramatically different things. The Holy Bible says that man is made in God’s image – God does not make a distinction in the religion one is born in. And since this is true, it is important for each of us to accept the other regardless of their religion, gender, color, social standing, and other factors.

Many, especially for whom God and religion does not play such an important part in their lives say that all religions teach the same thing. They don’t. At best, all religions are superficially similar, but they are different at the core level. These same people will also tell you that God is one so what does it matter which religion you follow? If God is, indeed, one then He could not have revealed different laws at different times. God’s laws have to be perfect; not subject to trials and errors.

Unless you establish the True God and, therefore, His laws you will see all kinds of harsh punishments meted out to people, without a sliver of tolerance and forgiveness even for the smallest of crimes – worse, even for things they do that their religion considers immoral.

Jesus once said, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but my Word shall not pass away.” Luke 21:33. He could not have put it in stronger terms that He is immutable. The Word, which contains His law, is from eternity, and for eternity. He is making it very clear that there can be no change. Furthermore, since God is absolute, His character cannot be different over the ages. This is crucial to understand because if God did not know what He was doing right from the beginning, then He is fallible and that does not bode well for his title!


What About the God of the Old Testament and the Killings

One of the strongest attacks against God is defining the God of the Old Testament as a genocidal maniac who took pleasure in killing people. This one is actually easy to answer, but requires a lot of convincing.

First thing first, there is one God. There is no such thing as a God of the Old Testament and a God of the New Testament. Jesus Christ weaves through both eras. He is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. I have already established why God necessarily has to be immutable. So, why was He so harsh in his punishments? That’s the right question to ask.

The Old Testament is full of extraordinary miracles; but, the scale, magnitude and drama cannot be found in the New Testament. Even God’s might was evident in those miracles as He helped the oppressed get to freedom.

Contrary to what people might say, God tolerated the ill treatment of the Jews at the hands of the Egyptians for more than 400 years. When God finally decides to get the Jews free from bondage, He uses Moses as His instrument.

All kinds of miraculous signs were given to Pharoah and his men of God’s power, but to no avail – Pharoah believed that he was god. Pharoah had been sufficiently warned and only after all avenues were exhausted, did God decide to punish Pharoah. And the punishment comes when they are hot on the heels of the fleeing Jews.

It is ironical and even interesting that we cry out for justice even for the smallest of crimes and, yet, call God evil when He actually carries out justice. The Jews were crying out for justice for hundreds of years and while they suffered – and God appeared to look indifferent – He finally does it only when He knows that there is no other way.

Imagine as a president of a country you are told that the ship heading towards your country’s harbor is carrying people who have all been infected by a virus so deadly that if they set foot on soil, every single citizen of your country will be fatally infected. Let’s take it for granted that it has been established beyond doubt that the report you receive is true and accurate, before we get into subjective debates. As a responsible person, would you let those people set foot on your country’s soil, knowing that every single citizen of your country will be dead within months, or destroy that ship and everyone on it? It is a hard, very hard, choice.

God also finds it hard to decide to destroy entire tribes. That is why He waits and waits for people to change their ways before He takes what seems like a cruel step.

In Genesis 18, verse 16 onwards, we see that God has decided to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible tells us that the people were soaked in sin. Abraham, a man righteous in God’s eyes, begins his pleas of mercy for the good people of those cities. Knowing that He is asking an all-powerful God, He humbles himself and asks God if He would spare the cities if there were 50 good people and comes down to 10 good people. Even with the last plea, God tells Abraham, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

Abraham stops after that, but there is just one righteous family in that place and God tells them to leave everything and move out. Only after that does God destroy that place with brimstone and fire.

God does not take such an extreme step, unless He is fully convinced. To know this, we need to look at what God says before Abraham’s pleas begin. “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

Couldn’t God spare the children? We need to answer two questions: (1) Will the children, whose parents had turned to so much evil, grow into righteous people? (2) Is it not timely for God to allow their deaths to take place and ensure a place for them in heaven before they lose their innocence? We can keep debating this, but an all-knowing God will always know better.

It is important to note, that God not just looks at sin, but the severity of the sin. If based His judgement on every type of sin – big or small – then none of us would survive. LORD, if you were to record iniquities, Lord, who could remain standing? Psalms 130:3

Lastly, and this is very important to note, God did not give anyone blanket permission to kill an entire race or tribe whenever or wherever people were found committing a sin. ONLY God passed judgement, gave sufficient warnings and only then did He order the killing if there was resistance. The orders were against specific tribes; and, once the order was carried out, that was the end of it. Nowhere has God in the Holy Bible ordered future generations of followers to kill sinners or non-believers.

As populations have grown exponentially, I believe God will not order the killing of any nation because He will easily find “10 people” who are righteous in His eyes! After all it is a promise He has made.


Of Those Who Don't Accept Christ

Another question that I am challenged with is, “What about people who don’t know about Christ? Can they be saved?” C.S. Lewis, initially an atheist and a late comer to Christ, has analyzed this question very well. He said that Jesus spoke and warned about hell to religious hypocrites, not children. In fact, Jesus even said that the kingdom of heaven belongs to children because of their innocence. Clearly, God is not a tyrant. God does not condemn people on the evidence they don’t have and this is seen throughout the Holy Bible. And let Christians not forget that all the prophets who did God’s work did not know Him after He came to earth in the form of Christ. No one can seriously think that Abraham, Moses, and others like them are burning in hell. Because the God they worshipped is the same Christ who is from eternity. John 1:1-3 says of Jesus, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.” Notice the emphasis made about Jesus as the Creator, “without Him nothing was made that has been made.”

What about those who reject Christ? Here again, it depends on why they are rejecting Him? Let’s consider the healing of the blind man and what ensues (found in John 9:1-41). The healed man is joyous, but the Jewish leaders are full of doubt. It is interesting to see how the healed man’s faith progresses through common sense. First he speaks of Jesus as a man, then a Prophet, and then the Son of God. He applies a simple logic that the learned, self-righteous Pharisees refuse to accept: “If this man (human) were not from God (prophet), He (God) could do nothing.” John 1:33

In John 1:41, Jesus tells the adamant Pharisees, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.” What He is saying is clear: if we don’t have the evidence about Him, we cannot be held guilty; but, if we know and still look the other way, then we are. Only He knows what’s inside our hearts. The best judge in this matter, therefore, is Christ.

The second coming of Christ before the world – as we know it - ends is to be found both in the Holy Bible and the Qur’an. A lot of people ask when His second coming will be and in vain many cults give different dates – dates that have come and gone, and they are still working up dates.

While no one is certain about the year or date in which He will come, one thing is certain: He will not come until His message becomes known to every single person on this planet. “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, AND THEN THE END WILL COME." Mathew 24:9-14

Jesus’ final judgement will be fair – it will not be before everyone knows about Him and His message. He will, through His people, ensure that His message reaches everyone. The Holy Spirit has been active through the centuries and continues to be active to this very day. In His own way, God is touching the most hardened of hearts. That is the extent of His love.

Every single prophecy made in the Holy Bible has come true. I don’t see any reason why this prophecy will not be fulfilled. And there is already evidence of the events mentioned in the prophecy.

We are already witnessing the growing persecution of the Church and Christians throughout the world. But, the rise in number of those who are coming to Christ is still growing in leaps and bounds. Official statistics mean nothing. Many want to join Christianity, but are scared of the draconian laws in their countries, where embracing another faith means death. Jesus ultimately looks at what is in the heart of man, not what it says on the birth certificate. And there is hope for such people.

Today every conceivable type of sin is being committed by men and women for money and power. Some men and women have stooped to such depths that just listening to what they are doing for pleasure makes the blood curdle.

Richard Dawkins’ atheistic campaign can be seen on buses in London. His message, “There is probably no God, so stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

We are left with the choice of following these false prophets, or the God of whom we can know so much.


Jesus' Claims

If I were to summarize it, Jesus – in essence – made the following claims:

1. He is God
2. He is The Way, The Truth and The Life
3. He would be put to death
4. He would rise bodily

If Jesus claimed that He is God, then either He was an impostor, or a person suffering from some severe psychological disorder, or He is who He said He is - God. The possibility that He was an impostor is ruled out immediately because no one would deliberately go through the suffering He went through for claiming to be God, with nothing to gain but death. A person with a mental disorder could not have come up with The Sermon on the Mount, considered even by his detractors as the most profound teaching to come from the mouth of any teacher. All other teachings on ethics appear like footnotes.

That leaves us with the other two possibilities. Could He be suffering from some psychological disorder and honestly believed that He is God? This would be accurate if the claims and the prophecies He made about Himself, and others who made about Him - would not have been fulfilled.

Although Einstein did not have a problem that the universe had to come from a superior intelligent being, he had a problem accepting that God was interested in people’s welfare. Here is an excerpt of the interview that appeared in the Saturday Evening Post in 1929:

"To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?"

"As a child I received instruction both in the Holy Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene (Jesus was raised in Nazareth)."

"Have you read Emil Ludwig’s book on Jesus?"

"Emil Ludwig’s Jesus is shallow. Jesus is too colossal for the pen of phrasemongers, however artful. No man can dispose of Christianity with a bon mot (good word)!"

When asked if he accepted the historical existence of Jesus, Einstein answered, "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."


Did Jesus Claim Divinity?

I was once watching Dr. Zakir Naik, a Muslim preacher, on YouTube. He challenged the people in the crowd to show him one verse where Jesus claimed divinity. He also added that he would accept Christianity if this could be shown. He used quotes, taken out of context (where Jesus speaks as a mere man) from the Holy Bible, to “prove” otherwise. The fact is, there are many verses.

Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly that Jesus was claiming deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence.

Let’s look at what happens between some Jews and Jesus in John 8:57-59. “Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” “Truly, truly, I tell you, Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I AM! At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him.” Why did the Jews respond by taking up stones to kill Him? It was blasphemy for anyone who declare themselves God and according to the Mosaic Law the penalty was death (Leviticus 24:16).

When God spoke to Moses in the burning bush, he answered Moses’ question by saying that He is “I AM.” Jesus used the same name declaring that He is God.

Moreover, Jesus forgave sins, something that only God has exclusivity to (Matthew 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20–21), said He was the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5), claimed he was God's Son (Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:61–62; Luke 22:70), allowed himself to be worshipped (Matthew 28:9, 17), said He sends forth "His" angels (Matthew 13:41; 25:31) as well as other prophets (Matthew 23:34; see God doing this in 2 Chronicles 36:15), made a direct claim to divinity as the Son of God as mentioned in the book of Daniel (Daniel 7:13-14; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:61–62; Luke 22:70).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Scriptures reveal that the terms used in the Old Testament by God, were used by Jesus in the New Testament. Jesus made some pretty extraordinary claims about himself that were recorded and circulated during a time when those who heard him speak could have easily disputed what was written down if they were false. But no one did.

In short, Jesus claimed he was equal to God. Just look at some of these examples of how He referenced statements made about God in the Old Testament (OT) and applied them to Himself in the New Testament (NT):

The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27 OT; Matthew 13:3-9 NT)
The Shepherd (Genesis 49:24, Psalms 23:1 OT); (John 10:11 NT)
The Rock (Psalms 18:2 OT); (Matthew 7:24 NT)
The Saviour (Psalms 18:2 OT); (Luke 19:10 NT)
The Bridegroom (Isaiah 54:5, Hosea 2:16 OT); (Matthew 25:1 NT)
I AM (Exodus 3:14-15; Isaiah 48:12 OT); (John 8:58 NT)
The light (Psalms 27:1 OT); (John 8:12 NT)
Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6 OT); (Matthew 28:18 NT)
Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12 OT); (Matthew 25:31-46 NT)
God's Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8); (Mark 13:31)


Or Was He Only Man?

A person who has studied the Holy Bible may be confused with some of the things Christ said about Himself. For example, if He is God, why did He say "The Father is greater than I" in John 14:28? Jesus says repeatedly that He is doing the Father’s will, thereby implying that He is somehow subservient to the Father. The question then becomes how can Jesus be equal to God when by His own admission He is subservient to the will of God? The answer to this question lies within the nature of the incarnation.

During the incarnation, Jesus was temporarily “made lower than the angels” (Hebrews 2:9), which refers to Jesus’ status. The doctrine of the incarnation says that Jesus took on human flesh. Therefore, for all intents and purposes, Jesus was fully human and “made lower than the angels.” However, Jesus is fully divine, too. By taking on human nature, Jesus did not relinquish His divine nature – GOD CANNOT STOP BEING GOD. How do we reconcile the fact that Jesus is fully divine yet fully human and by definition “lower than the angels”? The answer to that question can be found in Philippians 2:5-11. When Jesus took on human form, something amazing happened - He “MADE HIMSELF NOTHING.” In essence, what it means is that Jesus voluntarily relinquished the privilege of freely exercising His divine attributes and subjected Himself to the will of the Father while on earth.

Another thing to consider is the fact that subservience in role does not equate to subservience in essence. For example, consider an employer/employee relationship. The employer has the right to make demands of the employee, and the employee has the obligation to serve the employer. The roles clearly define a subservient relationship. However, both people are still human beings. The fact that one is an employer and the other is an employee does nothing to alter the fact that these two individuals in ESSENCE RE HUMAN BEINGS. The same can be said of God the Father, and God the Son (Jesus). Both are equal in essence because they are both divine in nature. However, in the grand plan of redemption, they play certain roles, and these roles define authority and subservience.

Therefore, the fact that the Son took on a human nature and made Himself subservient to the Father in no way denies the deity of the Son, nor does it diminish His essential equality with the Father. THE “GREATNESS” SPOKEN OF IN THIS VERSE, THEN, RELATES TO ROLE – NOT TO ESSENCE.


Only God Can Perform Miracles

There's more. Jesus not only claimed equality with God, he did things only God can do. For example, Jesus demonstrated sovereignty over birth defects (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5), disease (Matthew 8:2, Luke 7:1,Mark 3:1), nature (Matthew 14:25), creation (Matthew 14:13-21; Luke 9:12-17), Satan/demons (Matthew 8:28, Luke 8:26, Mark 1:34), and death (Mark 5:22, Luke 7:11) WITH HIS OWN AUTHORITY. Never once did He call upon God to perform a miracle, but instead He acted on His own.

 

(Continued in Part 3 of 3…)

 

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By Oliver Sutari

Comment on this article

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Oliver,

    Aren't you moving goal posts?

    Actually there is no evidence that you or any creationist will be satisfied with.

    Even if i could somehow go back in time and somehow have snapshots of organisms accept humans... you would still nullify the whole thing by saying animals and humans are different. So same evolutionary rules dont apply.

    And thus i conclude my argument with you defending theory of evolution.

    Now i will turn to your subject ... that is religious belief masquerading as a body of history and facts.

    So you believe bible is the word of god. Since god is perfect, thus his book cannot be inaccurate. So as per your view everything in bible (old as well as new testament) is true and laws in it are moral.

    So, Book of Deuteronomy and Book of Leviticus are also valid.

    Agree [23]

  • Oliver, Udupi

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Zeitgeist,
    In the last few of your comments, you are confirming precisely what I have affirmed, except you think you are proving me wrong.
    When you suggest that evolution is happening very rapidly, you have failed to answer why we are not seeing it happening from apes to humans. I have no problem of evolution from reptile to reptile, or peacock to domestic chicken. But evolutionists have still to show (and I am not saying with physical evidence), how is it even possible from a whale to a rabbit? Please for your convenience don’t say that some processes are extremely slow. You cannot have it both ways.
    What you seem to have answered so easily, is precisely the difficulty Darwin had – he said the absence of transitional life forms poses a lot of difficulty. Again, from whale to rabbit not peacock to chicken.
    I can only conclude that evolution will remain a theory – even if I grant you that it is true – because digging into the so-called 14.5 billion years of the universe is impossible.
    Therefore, I do not wish to respond any further on evolution.
    I found the history of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection easy to test. Every prophecy made about Him has come true. That Jesus is God no one has been able to PROVE otherwise. Miracles are happening even today. Millions are coming to Jesus through the promptings of the Holy Spirit in ways even believers never thought possible. I can understand the difficulties non-believers have.

    Agree [9]

  • sam, world

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    @Zeitgeist, Mangalore
    “Also evolution is not the basis for my morality.”
    - Why not believe in morality according to evolution? Are you afraid?

    Agree [5]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Scientists failed to create a man as I am.
    Scientists failed to create a Chimpanzee.
    Forget Chimpanzee scientists failed to say from where hen came.
    They discovered EGG came from Hen. From where does the Hen came???!!!

    ATHEISTS ARE BEST TO ANSWER HEN TO EGG ONLY.

    SCIENTISTS CAN CREATE A ROBOT AND THEY CAN GIVE A KONKANI NAME ABUT/ALBERT BUT NOT A REAL MAN.

    EVOLUTION STOPS WHEN IT BECOME A MAN. IT SHOULD STOP AFTER BECOMING BECAUSE IF IT EVOLVES AGAIN MAN CAN PERCEIVE/RECOGNIZE MAN IS EVOLVED TO SUPER MAN.

    AN APE BECOME A MAN MILLIONS OF YEARS BACK SO THAT MAN CANNOT RESEARCH BACK TO MILLIONS OF YEARS BACK AND PRODUCE A WITNESS.

    MINDLESS AND FOOLISH EVOLUTIONISTS.

    Agree [6]

  • Oliver, Udupi

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Thank you for confirming only what I have been saying all along. Your example is that of reptile to reptile.

    By the way, there have been many times that even a magazine like National Geographic has been taken for a ride by "experts" who have fabricated fossils and because of their preconceived belief that evolution is true, they have excitedly printed the finding.

    Agree [6]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Continued from below:

    Atheists believe in Mythology. A few Atheists argue at the top of their voice and brain to discredit God and since God was existed and the Statan/atheist’s wanted to sit on the throne to discredit the plans of God claiming Satan / atheists are superior and rationalists.
    Satan’s works are to make quarrels each other for the belief in Him. You and your brother are atheists and you fight each other. But both believe Jesus was existed one says Jesus was a rebel another says Jesus was a mythological person. After all Jesus was, is and will be coming again soon. Praise the Lord.

    Agree [6]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    I quote yours: Your questions regarding evolution are basically at best elementary level. Unquote. That is the crux of the subject of Darwins Theory. In the elementary level he and the atheists failed to explain as it was forced in the educational subjects to believe animals evolve. I am not seeing chicken evolved. Have you seen? Show me a witness. Millions of years back it was a kitchen and now it is a chicken. That is only the atheist’s elementary answer.

    We cannot compare a mongo to an animal nor to a person. Plants have no pain. Whichever creature haves blood gets pain. We cannot explain evolution theory to an aero plane. Aero planes are made by men and having its limitations. Man can make computers and the mind of the computer was manmade with the given mind only it can act. The commodity is designed by man and man is capable to modify it or can destroy or an aero plane will fail technically because of its worn out spare parts made by men. Man is Unique created by God Animals are also created by God. Therefore we cannot compare man to an animal and plants to aero planes and humans to animals.
    God made human kind and animal kind. It doesn’t evolve. I reiterate again after passing millions of years nobody has proved so far evolution is right not even Pope Francis.
    Nowhere in the Holy Bible it is specified as the earth is flat.

    We the believers in God and we encounter Jesus in our daily life. Come and taste the God is good. Pslam 34:8 Hebrews 6:5

    Agree [5]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Oliver,
    Example of evolution in our times:
    In 1971, scientists transplanted five adult pairs of the reptiles from their original island home in Pod Kopiste to the tiny neighboring island of Pod Mrcaru, both in the south Adriatic Sea.
    Genetic testing on the Pod Mrcaru lizards confirmed that the modern population of more than 5,000 Italian wall lizards are all descendants of the original ten lizards left behind in the 1970s.
    In just a few decades the 5-inch-long (13-centimeter-long) lizards have developed a completely new gut structure, larger heads, and a harder bite.
    The new habitat once had its own healthy population of lizards, which were less aggressive than the new implants, Irschick said.
    The new species wiped out the indigenous lizard populations, although how it happened is unknown, he said.
    The transplanted lizards adapted to their new environment in ways that expedited their evolution physically, Irschick explained.
    Pod Mrcaru, for example, had an abundance of plants for the primarily insect-eating lizards to munch on. Physically, however, the lizards were not built to digest a vegetarian diet.
    Researchers found that the lizards developed cecal valves—muscles between the large and small intestine—that slowed down food digestion in fermenting chambers, which allowed their bodies to process the vegetation's cellulose into volatile fatty acids.
    Along with the ability to digest plants came the ability to bite harder, powered by a head that had grown longer and wider.

    Agree [12]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Oliver,

    I have already said that it is this code which is embedded in each kind that completely restricts, for example, a mango seed growing into a fruit tree of another kind.
    How can you say that the code completely restricts? Do you think there where so many varieties of mangos? The mangoes that we eat now could be entirely different to the mangoes 5000 years ago.
    Do you know that banana has been modified to be of more usefulness by humans. Bananas didn’t even have their trademark yellow color 200 years ago. Imagine if this can happen in a span of 200 years… imagine what would happen in a billion years.

    Agree [11]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Oliver,

    Evolutionists say that genetic mutations are MINDLESS and that they occur all the time. Surprisingly, a MINDLESS, UNGUIDED process stops there and man remains a man and birds remain birds. Some evolutionists explain that there was no need to further evolve. How did a mindless process become mindful to make a decision? They quickly add, it is happening but we don’t see it. Which one do you believe in?
    Mutations are mindless…. Yes… they happen all the time. But, it all depends upon how those specific mutations help that particular individual animal. Eg: Mangoose and poisonous snake. How has mangoose acquired its defence against the poisionous snake, which is its normal prey. Generations ago snake was not mangoose`s normal prey. Many mangoose ancestors would have died when hunting snakes and a dead animal cannot breed and spread its genes. Somewhere in its evolution a mutation occurred that helped mangoose defence against snakes poison. Here the mutation of anti venom would be more beneficial than mutation of say – having slightly longer limbs. So that particular mangoose with its anti venom mutation could hunt snakes more, mate more and spread its genes more. This is how the modern mangoose can avoid death by snake bite.

    Agree [9]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Oliver,

    As for drawings of embryos, how do they prove common ancestry? A common design can also mean a common designer. Cars are very different in looks, but they all have engines and wheels. Cells of different animals look may look identical, but look deeper and you will see a genetic code that differentiates one animal from another by millions and millions of different codes. Check out again the difference in codes between chimpanzees and man.

    Yes there is a difference. But don’t you think that such difference between chimp and human must be more vast and completely unconnected to chimps. Now for time being forget about chimp and humans. Do you know all most all population outside Africa do not have pure homo sapien genes. All humans outside Africa have the mixture of Homo sapien and neanderthal dna. You wont be able to explain this based on your creationism.

    Agree [9]

  • Abraham D almeida, barkur

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by vast body of evidence. A theory then is an explanation rather than a guess. A scientific theory incorporates facts, inferences , laws and tested hypothesis. Theories explain laws. Evolutionary theory is built in the same way that theory is built in particle physics can be directly tested

    Agree

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Good God.
    God in Wind.
    He is not Blind.
    He is our Friend.
    God is in the Mind.
    He is roaming Round.
    God is enormously Kind.
    He cannot be Threatened.
    If we pray He with us Blend.
    In prayers blessings He Send.
    Always kind in blessing He Lend.
    Human’s minds & hearts He Mend.
    Action of God is not a thing to Trend.
    God is good and never will He Pretend.
    Evil also recognize, God is God and Bend.
    In the morning prayers mind & body Sound.
    Always name of God is precious don’t Offend.
    He rescues if you cry to save drowning in Pond.
    Don’t offend a friend in mind a blend of good God.

    Agree [7]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Joseph,

    Your questions regarding evolution are basically at best elementary level. I am not going to waste my time answering your question.

    Its like, i give an explanation on how airplane can fly, you come up with a further question... how such a heavy object could fly with out the help of god? therefore you reason there must be god.

    Now about David Wood, who claims to be an atheist before he began practicing christianity. As I have told many times before Atheist only means rejecting the god claim of theist because of zero evidence. thats it. A person who claims that he is an atheist does not mean that he believes in the science or scientific way of thinking. There might be a atheist somewhere who thinks that the earth is flat. Fun fact: You Mr. Joseph are also and atheist with regards to any other religion, I just go one religion more.

    Personal example on how two atheist may have different view points:I and my brother are atheist. So god is out of the picture for us. but we have disagreements regarding whether Jesus was an historical person or not. My brother argues that Jesus was a rebel to fought against Romans and later his followers made him a mythical figure for their cause. My view is that Jesus is just a myth and his whole story could be narrated through astro-theological explanation.

    Agree [4]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Dear ANP Blur,
    Claiming themselves rationale and cannot display their correct names.
    For what you fear to display your full name?

    We the Christians practice 10 commandants.

    Gospel means Good News. The name of Gospel is in Gospel Ref. Mark 16:15.

    You should call it Anonymous because it is the Word of God written by men preserved in papyrus even today to Corroborate authenticity and the truth of the Holy Bible.

    The Old Testament as well as the Last Testament or the New Testament is called the Holy Bible.

    My quotes are authentic as per mine and others belief in the Holy Bible.

    How come others as well as godless sources you say are authentic???!!!

    THE HOLY BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD AND IT IS AUTHENTIC, FANTASTIC.

    HALLELUIAH PRAISE THE LORD AND HIS NAME BE GLORIFIED.

    Agree [3]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    I quote yours Some evolutionists explain that there was no need to further evolve. Unquote.
    1) Millions of years back a molecule become ridicule. It should be ridicule because no one has witnessed & this evolution is a theory & not proved yet and a mindless theory.
    2) Have anybody witnessed men become a super man after passing millions of years. Nobody has witnessed yet and never will be in this planet earth. GOD’S CREATION IN ANIMAL AND IN PERSON’S NEVER EVOLVE.
    3) Evolution of animals should stop after becoming a man. Man is not coming under animal category. Man is a Person not an animal having body mind and soul. Knows which is good and which is bad. Animals don’t know which is good and which is bad. Man is a rationale being can recognize whether he evolve or not evolve. Hence the evolutionists stopped the evolution there itself (SATAN’S DEVISIVE TACTICS).
    4) NOBODY HAVE WITNESSED WHERE DOES THE APE EXISTED TO EVOLVE? Suppose ape evolved from monkey and gradually became super monkey and became ape. Alright, from where did this monkey exist from super Cat? If so does the Cat exist from Rat and the story I REITERATE THE STORY NOT A PROVEN REALITY is on and on and continuing…AS AN ATHEISTS MATERIAL.
    5) HOWEVER I CAN PROVE THAT THE ATHEISTS ARE EXISTED AFTER THE EXISTANCE OF GOD. WITHOUT GOD HOW COME ATHEISTS?!
    AT LEAST THE ATHEISTS SHOULD LEARN FROM FORMER ATHEIST DR. DAVID WOOD NOW A TELEVANGELIST & PREACHER OF CHRISTIANITY.
    HALLELUIAH PRAISE GOD AND HIS NAME BE GLORIFIED.

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver, Udupi

    Mon, Aug 22 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    If in many animals there is a practice of alpha male and alpha female, it is clear indication that they practice some hierarchy – they are better than humans in that sense. You say that humans have developed far enough to have suppressed their instincts. It is actually the opposite. Randomly picking other women only shows that humans have not curbed their instincts – they are following it.

    As for drawings of embryos, how do they prove common ancestry? A common design can also mean a common designer. Cars are very different in looks, but they all have engines and wheels. Cells of different animals look may look identical, but look deeper and you will see a genetic code that differentiates one animal from another by millions and millions of different codes. Check out again the difference in codes between chimpanzees and man.

    Evolutionists say that genetic mutations are MINDLESS and that they occur all the time. Surprisingly, a MINDLESS, UNGUIDED process stops there and man remains a man and birds remain birds. Some evolutionists explain that there was no need to further evolve. How did a mindless process become mindful to make a decision? They quickly add, it is happening but we don’t see it. Which one do you believe in?
    I have already said that it is this code which is embedded in each kind that completely restricts, for example, a mango seed growing into a fruit tree of another kind.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sun, Aug 21 2016

    Oliver,


    Forget whether it is moral or immoral, are you not bringing men and women to the level of animals?

    - If I ask you to give me evidence that humans are not animal. You will not be able to bring any evidence without bringing up god. Have you ever seen the pictures/diagram of embryos of different animals. Why are they so similar if humans are so special.

    Agree [4]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sun, Aug 21 2016

    So you think it okay for a married man to seek another woman and only the man has the right to make that decision.

    - I just explained to you why men think the way they think. It has nothing to do what I think. Also evolution is not the basis for my morality. So don’t arrive at a conclusion that whatever evolution explains I follow the same thing. Like I have said before you are looking at the evolution from a very different view. First of all theory of evolution is not a religion. Same goes for atheism. If tomorrow scientific community comes up with a different theory and provides evidence for it, I will change my mind. Same goes for your claim that god exists. If you can bring up the evidence I will accept that god exists.

    I feel ashamed that I am even asking this question and as horrible as it will sound, please help me here: if 10 men eye one woman, is this okay in the evolutionary system that you believe in?
    - Like I mentioned above already, theory of evolution is not a religion. I am not going to say what is ok and what is not. There are some societies where a brothers share a single women.

    For heaven's sake, among so many animals there is a practice of alpha male and alpha female.
    - So? Humans have developed far enough that we have suppressed instincts.

    Continued...

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Sun, Aug 21 2016

    ANP,

    I will give you credit for saying that the books in the Bible are anonymous. Not because your statement is correct, but it is the first time that I have heard this.

    Is there anything else you can cook up to prove the Bible false? Perhaps you can tell the readers when the Bible was actually compiled and who the authors were.

    If the Bible's authors are anonymous, it means the names given are fake.

    Amazingly, an estimated 5 billion copies have been sold of this "fake" book.

    The question is not whether Mr. Joseph is giving baseless quotes, but whether you are taking a wild swing at the world's best selling book of all time - the Bible.

    Agree [5]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Sat, Aug 20 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    So you think it okay for a married man to seek another woman and only the man has the right to make that decision.

    I feel ashamed that I am even asking this question and as horrible as it will sound, please help me here: if 10 men eye one woman, is this okay in the evolutionary system that you believe in?

    For heaven's sake, among so many animals there is a practice of alpha male and alpha female.

    Forget whether it is moral or immoral, are you not bringing men and women to the level of animals?

    Agree [5]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Sat, Aug 20 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Personally, I don't hate any atheist. I think you are one and if I had any hatred towards you I would not have bothered to respond to your comments.

    If anything, I appreciate your candor - it helps me more than you can imagine. Perhaps I am doing it for a selfish reason after all!

    I have no doubt that if someday we meet, there is no reason why we can't get along.

    In the meantime, let our little battle continue.

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Sat, Aug 20 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    How does evolution deal with a woman getting pregnant following rape?

    Does this also come under a "strong " man driven by instinct to pass on his genes for the better of the human race and, therefore, the woman must accept it or, she feels the man was not strong enough and decides to terminate the pregnancy.

    From the church or state's stand point, I admit the issue is complicated and cannot be accepted by everyone unless they understand that aborting a child is akin to murder. Having said that, rape victims are known to continue with the pregnancy and bear the child. On what grounds they do it, I have no clue.

    Making it illegal has not stopped people from having abortions at safe nursing homes, just as prohibition of liquor has not stopped the sale and consumption of liquor.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sat, Aug 20 2016

    Oliver,

    another question that you have ignored: why does a man think it is immoral for his wife to have an affair with another man, when he thinks it is okay for him to have an affair with another woman? As you said, if there is no physical harm, there is nothing wrong with it – so, why do such relationships end up in divorce?

    Do you know why you brought up this question? Because you cannot explain it in anyway because of your rejection of theory of evolution. This question falls under Evolutionary psychology.

    From male point of view it is beneficial for him to have offspring with different female. That ensures that his genes are spread more. This is why in Male morality its acceptable to do that. Why a male finds it unacceptable for his partner to do that because he wont spend his resource in caring for another male`s child.

    As humans advanced this way of thinking led to create morality around it.

    Divorce is entirely new concept if you take the whole history of modern humans. The real reason for rise in divorce is because of empowerment of women in modern times. Fundamental view Feminism has destroyed the western society.

    If you think atheists as your enemy, wait until the wave of feminism and social justice warriors hits. They have derailed the atheism movement in such a way that theist could only dream of.

    Agree [5]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sat, Aug 20 2016

    Oliver,

    First let me speak about abortion. I agree with your stance on abortion. But if tomorrow abortion is made illegal, what to do if there is medical complication and abortion is the only way to save a women. What will happen if a young girl is raped and gets pregnant as the result... what to do then? what if a couple have no means to support the child after its born? These are the tough questions. Do you have answer for it? Remember you cannot make exception to the rule. The other thing is that first of all we have to much of the population to making abortion illegal will only make it worse.

    next pornography, The issue over here is the individual rights. I will speak for myself over here. I will strictly control what my children will watch. This does not only include pornography but most of all the garbage shown in television in the name of entertainment. After they turn 18, i am no longer going to tell them what to watch and do... cause they are considered adults thus get all the individual rights. No study has proven that pornography as led to increase in crimes ans divorces. Some people would argue that it will lead to addiction, but you can say that to anything. According to me there are other things that are mush worse than pornography.

    Just a fun fact: Do you know why many like to watch cookery shows? Because watching cookery shows triggers the part of our brain that deals with pleasure. Same part is triggered when watching pornography.

    Agree [1]

  • ANP, Blur

    Sat, Aug 20 2016

    This will never end as ......................
    One says there is god and he can prove it !
    The other says there is no god and he does not have to prove it !

    Agree [2]

  • ANP, Blur

    Sat, Aug 20 2016

    Joseph don't show intellect .
    Old Testament is not there in Old Testament neither is the word gospels in gospels.
    The gospels are anonymous so are most of the books in OT.source :.( Jerrome BC R.C.Book, KJV, Protestant ( Believers book )
    As such your quotes are baseless.

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    Zeitgeist,
    There are many points I had raised when I spoke about the harm that is caused by pornography and abortions.
    Let me ask again, why does a person in a so-called civilized country not allow his children to watch pornography? On what basis does he make the decision? If you have a problem with the church making moral decisions why do you accept the government’s decisions? In some countries, the legal age for driving is 18, in some 16. If you don’t consider eating beef immoral, on what basis do you base your decision?

    Someone believes it is immoral and they think it is okay to force it on you, whatever the basis.
    As for the unwanted pregnancies, please see why a pregnancy that would have been avoided by abstinence is guaranteed as compared with the use of a contraceptive device. Please use the link below (not a religious website): http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/features/surprise-unplanned-pregnancy
    Let me repeat another question that you have ignored: why does a man think it is immoral for his wife to have an affair with another man, when he thinks it is okay for him to have an affair with another woman? As you said, if there is no physical harm, there is nothing wrong with it – so, why do such relationships end up in divorce?
    By the way, I did not know Saudi Arabia’s laws were based on the Bible. Thanks for sharing!
    I enjoy fielding questions, but it is frustrating when I have to repeat the same things.

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Regret, I have no clue what this has got to do with the article, or whether God created the universe or not!

    I believe 12 witnesses could not stand a lie under some of the horrendous tortures prevailing during Jesus' time. Please, are you even considering anything in the article?

    For me this one evidence about Jesus overshadows everything! If they saw Jesus, then they saw Jesus. They had absolutely nothing to gain, only their lives to lose. Unless, of course, you have another theory.

    The Christian faith is not based on on science, it is based on the irrefutable fact, supported by evidence, about the Resurrection of Jesus.

    Your questions: How did Church changed its stance from Geocentric theory to Heliocentric theory? Based on what you believe, you must be for geocentric theory.

    Another question , are you a old earth creationist or young earth creationist?

    Agree [3]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    Dear Jerome Colaco, Ullal,

    Surely God is not a “a magician with a magic wand”

    THE MAGICIAN AND A MAGIC WAND IS WITH THE SATAN.

    GOD PERFORMS MIRACLES THOSE WHO PRAY OR REQUESTS HIM.

    MIRACLES ARE NOT MAGIC.

    Agree [5]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    Dear ANP, Blur,
    I quote yours: No child is born into a religion that's the crux of this topic......
    Joseph your reply concludes that
    All good people are children of God
    All bad people are of the devil.
    Now what if they change ? Unquote.

    You will never find a word called religion in the Old Testament and from the four Gospels. Religion was made by humans.

    We the Christians believe and hope in the faith of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

    Jesus was before Abraham John 8:58.

    Jesus was before the foundation of the world. John 14:24

    Jesus was with heavenly Father before the world was John 17:5

    Man chose the good and the bad which are within in their reach.

    Good people will inherit the kingdom of God and live eternally.

    Bad people have the chance to repent and ask forgiveness from God and the Almighty God will forgive their and yours as he is loving and forgiving.

    REPENT AND ASK FORGIVENESS NOW DON’T LOOSE THE OPPORTUNITY GIVEN BY GOD YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE LIFE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD ETERNALLY.

    Agree [7]

  • sam, world

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    @Zeitgeist, Mangalore
    “Allowing people to do what they want without causing harm to anybody is the stance to take in a civilized society.”
    - Why? Why is an atheist afraid of harm? Is harm a breaking of a commandment from evolution?

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    Oliver,

    How did Church changed its stance from Geocentric theory to Heliocentric theory? Based on what you believe, you must be for geocentric theory.

    Another question , are you a old earth creationist or young earth creationist?

    Agree [2]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    Oliver,

    In what way is pornography, abortion, civilized?

    Allowing people to do what they want without causing harm to anybody is the stance to take in a civilized society. Civilized society based on individual freedoms. If you want to see biblical rules followed in modern times just look at saudi arabia.

    Your views are completely based on what you think is moral or immoral. Morality can be relative. eg: consuming beef may be considered immoral by some (stance that i hold). for some it is perfectly fine(i am ok with it because individual freedom out weighs what i consider moral or immoral). i am also against abortion (personal view), but individuals rights outweighs anything else.

    Condoms have not resulted in increased pregnancy...Not using condoms has resulted in increased pregnancy. Condoms have also greatly reduced chance of STDs and HIV infection. Do you know why Africa has more people with aids, its because of religious views which are against condoms.

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Fri, Aug 19 2016

    Jerome Colaco,

    We’ll find out who is making up ideas!

    Let me quote Pope Francis – emphasis added by me: “HE [referring to GOD] CREATED beings [not cells, but no problem even if they are cells] and allowed them to develop according to the internal laws [creative/replicating mechanism] that He [GOD] gave to each one [CLEAR RESTRICTION THAT ONE KIND REMAINS ONE KIND], so that they were able to develop and arrive at their fullness of being.” Jesus said that HE made them male and female from the beginning.

    This is millions of miles away from what ATHEISTIC EVOLUTION assumes.

    A mango seed will never grow into an oak – not in a million years – because genetic coding restricts it. Bacteria mutate all the time and VERY RAPIDLY, BUT REMAIN BACTERIA.

    Evolution, unless clarified, means from a primordial soup to man (ATHEISTIC EVOLUTION). Mind you, evolutionists say that genetic mutations are MINDLESS and that they occur all the time.

    Surprisingly, a MINDLESS, UNGUIDED process stops there and man remains a man and birds remain birds. Some evolutionists explain that there was no need to further evolve. How did a mindless process become mindful to make a decision? They quickly add, it is happening but we don’t see it. How convenient!

    It is absurdly ludicrous to even think that the leader of the Catholic Church will take God out of the equation – it would make him an atheist. Therefore, what he said is termed as THEISTIC EVOLUTION, but it is not a doctrinal issue.

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Mr. Robert Pereira,

    Part 3...

    Complications from abortions cause nearly 50,000 deaths each year. Pornography showing adults has led to an unprecedented demand for child pornography. The crimes against children in India pales in comparison to the sexual crimes for money in the so called civilized countries. When they had little, they were better off. We think education and knowledge solves everything. Actually, adherence to wisdom does. The Bible says, “Fear (reverence) of God is the beginning of wisdom.”
    The West was once driven by one verse from the Bible: man is made in God’s image. Now they don’t want God and His laws. Look what it has done to them.

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Mr. Robert Pereira,

    Part 2...

    This incident perhaps throws some light. It was narrated to me by a friend.

    A boy of 16 was found in a tent, with some clothing, canned food and his dog under a bridge in Canada. Upon questioning, the police found out that he was the son of a multi-millionaire. Asked what he was doing in such a beggarly condition, he said he had experienced every imaginable pleasure in life and it had left him empty. He said he was trying to find out what life is about.
    No question, every person has the right to decide what is good for him, but do people really know what is good for them? If that was the case, then education up to just 10th Standard would be enough to make the world civilized, after all morals are not taught after 10th.
    Does being civilized lead to less divorces? Denmark is considered one of the Happiest Nations. Yet, the divorce rate is among the highest in Europe. To find out what is wrong with divorce ask a child who is being shared by separated parents! If you are travelling in Denmark over the weekend, you may find yourself in the middle of unsupervised, unruly kids, who may even be on drugs going to visit either their father or mother over the weekend. Some sober people call such trains “divorce express”.

    No wonder Jesus said that “he hates divorce.” The church has long ago warned about the dangers of abortion, divorce, pornography, etc., but who wants to give up their freedom?

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Mr. Robert Pereira,

    What a dangerous view to adopt!

    The results of a so called civilized culture, where they are okay without God:

    In what way is pornography, abortion, civilized? Do you know the use of condoms has actually led to increase in unwanted pregnancies and abortions? France is a European country with among the highest number of rapes and that, too, when pornography and prostitution is legal. Lobbyists will say make prostitution legal and rapes will come down. They want their votes, they make money, and leave a deathly trail for parents to cope with.
    Parents who may have watched pornography as youngsters will not allow their children to watch it. What changes them? A married man thinks he does not need the church to tell him that adultery is wrong, but will he allow his wife to spend the night with another man? Adultery still remains one of the reasons for divorce. They are now afraid of marriage and have legalized live-in relationships – another example of lobbying.
    I envy the social security system of some of the advanced nations, but why do they have some of the highest suicide rates? Is it emptiness and how do you fill that abyss? The neighbor’s wife is delicious, but that fruit always leaves you empty.

    continued as Part 2...

    Agree [3]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Are we to believe in this imaginary thing put forwarded by imaginary people? Charles Darwin's theory has become an atheist material where they believe in evolution from delusion to discredit God to make rational people in confusion. God is supreme and we are daily experiencing His power, works on nature and on His creations. EVOLUTION THEORY IS A SATAN’S TOOL TO FOOL THE HUMANS. WE ARE NOT FOOLS TO BELIEVE IN SATAN'S DIVISIVE TACTICS.

    Agree [4]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    The Darwin’s theory of evolution as the ape gradually becomes man A millions of years back and at the stage of man the evolution stops. Darwin’s theory A SATANS DIVISIVE TACTICS. Darwin knows well millions of years back nobody will investigate and science cannot prove it.

    May I ask why we have to believe man evolved from ape and from where does the ape existed to evolve? Suppose ape evolved from monkey and gradually became super monkey and became ape. Alright, from where did this monkey exist from super Cat? If so does the Cat existed from Rat and the story is on and on and continuing and the scientists recently discovered that the hen came first? (How egg formed without a cock) How come the Hen without anything? Few argue from a molecule and from where does the molecule appear without anything?

    Hence why we are to believe in this evolution/changing kind from ape to man and finally after becoming man the evolution stops (really funny and Satan’s divisive tactics). If such is the case why not other creatures also have been evolved to some other kinds? After passing millions of years we see a person remained a person, an ape remained an ape, a chicken remained a chicken, an elephant remained an elephant, a lion remained a lion and so on. Why I and you are not witnessing any changes, evolution in its kind/form of a man or other creatures to another kind or a form? Does anybody in this forum witnessed???
    continued...

    Agree [6]

  • ANP, Blur

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    No child is born into a religion that's the crux of this topic......
    Joseph your reply concludes that
    All good people are children of God
    All bad people are of the devil.
    Now what if they change ?

    Agree [2]

  • Philip Pereira, Bangalore/U.K.

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Creation and evolution, both are theories. They are not proven facts. Some believe in one and some in the other. In both cases people are putting their faith on theories postulated by others. There is no point in one group asking to prove the other. Both can’t be proved. It must be left at that.

    Personally I believe in creation because I believe in God and the Bible. As regards to scientific theory of millions or billions years of this universe is not against the Bible. The Bible doesn’t say when exactly this universe was created. It simply says, ‘in the beginning’. But Bible does imply the human creation is no more than 10,000 years and as far as I know there are no proven civilisations that date back beyond this approximate time frame. Science can only discover what is already there.

    As per belief in God it is again a matter of faith and should come about by a personal encounter with Christ. If there is no personal encounter then the faith is based on theories imposed by the religion that one follows just as atheist bases his no God idea also on theories. For a personal encounter with Christ one needs to recognise the sinfulness within and the realisation that there is no solution available anywhere in the world for the sin within. Christ primarily offers answer to the sin problem within and when it is dealt things outside would change.

    Agree [6]

  • Jerome Colaco, Ullal

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Pope's Exact Words :The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not “a magician with a magic wand”, Pope Francis has declared.

    Speaking at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, the Pope made comments which experts said put an end to the “pseudo theories” of creationism and intelligent design that some argue were encouraged by his predecessor, Benedict XVI. there is no such thing as Theistic evolution. you are making up these ideas.

    Agree [1]

  • ANP, Blur

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Only one way to end this.......
    One says there is god and he can prove it !
    The other says there is no god and he does not have to prove it !

    Agree [2]

  • Robert Periera, Belman

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Notions of sin, salvation, eternal life have no basis in the present day. I have not read a proper definition to these words.world has advanced wherby these ideas are now questioned. we are now civilised to have peaceful life. examples are european countries where standard of life and civilsed living has negated the requirement of a heavenly savior. The state provides for your wellbeing until death.In our country we have a long way to go andhence these notions will prevail and people will be exploited of their fears.

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    The Pope's stand is theistic evolution - far different from atheistic evolution. When one supports life from soup to highly intelligent beings, that atheistic evolution - or more commonly called evolution.

    Since you keep quoting the Pope, do you then accept theism - that there is a God?

    By the way, how do scientists come up with dates going as far as billions of years? How do they know man came along on the scene around 200,000 years ago?

    Sorry, I have to ask, but I have still not understand how the male and female of any species came together?

    Agree [2]

  • John Furtado, bantwal

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Theory of evolution has three fundamental ideas, one being that species change over time and space. Darwin believed that evolution had its core in natural ion that occurred slowly in time as ecosystems changed and species adapted. The species that exist today are different from those of the past due to adaptations brought about by natural ion. Natural ion allows for better traits to be passed down to other generations to help ensure the species survival.
    Natural ion can occur because one member of a species was able to breed more successfully than another for various reasons like size, strength, survival skills, being more fertile and by adapting to their environment. This applies to all living organisms on the planet. Being able to adapt and change is what keeps a species going. Nature will favor those with some variations over others because they can survive the conditions put forth in their ecosystem where others cannot.

    Agree [1]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Vivian Dsouza,

    Creationism is not compatible with Science. I dont see why any Catholics would have problems with theory of evolution... since Vatican does not have any problems with it. Vatican has its own scientist who advice Pope about scientific issues, thus Vatican wont make fool out of itself by supporting Creationism. About a year ago Vatican accepted that global problem is a real issue that needs to be addressed as soon as possible, but creationist reject global warming in order to support their own religious belief. Even if i was a catholic(which i am not), i would be against creationists.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Oliver,

    We may not, as yet, know the purpose of everything, but even the tiniest of insect has a purpose.
    I think it is premature to conclude that anything that seems purposeless is a design fault by God.

    Read this-

    Onchocerciasis (also known as river blindness) is an eye and skin infection that is caused by a parasitic worm (onchocerca volvulus), transmitted by the bite of a black fly that lives and breeds on the banks of fast-flowing rivers and streams. While onchocerciasis is not a direct cause of mortality, the socioeconomic consequences extend beyond the infected individuals, affecting families and communities as a whole.

    the WHO’s Africa Regional Office estimated that there were 37 million people infected with the disease and more than 102 million people at risk of the disease in Africa alone.

    - Question: why design such a thing that could bring suffering to millions?

    Agree [4]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Dear ANP, Blur,
    It is not necessary only afterwards that a particular religion is thrust or imposed upon a child. A child reflects, acts, similar image and genus of a father and mother. Father and Mother believe in God, pray to God and shun evil seek exclusively goodness in heart and the same DNA / genus develops in the child. The root of goodness is sprouted from the persons of father and mother. We do not call animal chimpanzees father and mother which acts wildly and doesn’t think rationally. Supposedly the father and mother are wicked the child also will have wickedness in him. The child need comfort, intelligence, assistance and guidance from the father from the walki-talki till they stand in their legs.

    Agree [4]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Oliver,

    BEGINNING STAGES OF TRANSITION OF ONE LIFE FORM TO ANOTHER? WHY HAVE THEY INEXPLICABLY STOPPED, IF THEY HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE? AFTER ALL, WE OBSERVE MUTATIONS EVEN NOW.

    The people who say that transition is stopped are only creationist. How can you say it has stopped. We humans live for around 100 years, give or take a few. This time scale pales in comparison to 200000 years , a time homo sapiens appeared. thats a minimum of 200000 generations. the changes happen gradually. This is what fundamentally creationist generally fail to understand. Do you know that the average height of humans have increased in past 150 years? Do you know that large population have problems with digesting dairy products? How will you explain this if you dont consider evolution.

    A fish did not jump out of water and started living on land in a single day. It took millions of years.

    Agree [3]

  • Vivian Dsouza, bajpe

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Fact is recorded observation against a set of rules. The collection of a few writings with attributes to god cannot be called the word of god.
    The heart of creationism cannot be tested by science because the actions of omnipotent creator are compatible with any and all observations of the natural world. However some types of creationism go beyond the basic statement “God created” to make claims of the natural world. Eg the age of the earth which is in great variance to scientific observation.

    Agree [1]

  • ANP, Blue

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    If you believe it is absolutely the word of god then I have no further comments.

    Agree [5]

  • ANP, Blur

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    That's is no answer but a merry goround.
    Question"everyone is born an Atheist true,or godless or sans god at birth.it is only afterwards that religion is thrust upon the child.

    Agree [6]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    ANP,

    I find it strange that you put a question of anonymity while you hide behind initials.

    Have you read the article, or have you started your pronouncements before reading it? Your questions clearly indicate that you have ignored the historicity of the Bible that is covered in my article.

    If you say you don't believe a word of what I have said, that I can understand - but it will not hold water.

    If you have a problem with the contents, please present your counter arguments by giving something of substance, instead of just throwing crass and meaningless comments. I think I have requested this of you before, but you refuse to show any maturity.

    What does it matter to you how many have studied the Bible. What's your point?

    You say that it is the norm to quote from the Bible. What's your point?

    Do you see how meaningless your words are?

    Do you have a problem with God, or you are just another Christian-hater?

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Johnni D. Monthu

    One verse does not always explain the doctrines that the Catholic Church adheres to. We have so many Christian denominations today because someone wakes up, remembers a verse and thinks the Catholic Church's practices are wrong and decides to form a new group.

    Please follow the link to get your answer in detail to your question:

    http://www.catholic.com/tracts/are-catholics-born-again

    As for your question about child baptism, some argue that Jesus was baptized as an adult, so only adults should be baptized. Jesus was circumcised as an infant in adherence with the Jewish practice. Jesus crucifixion replaced all manner of blood offerings for the cleansing of sins, including the killing of animals. Just as Jesus was baptized with water, Catholics follow baptism with water. And just as Infant Jesus was offered in the temple through the practice of circumcision, the church offers the Sacrament of Baptism with water to infants.

    For those who scream how can a child know what is going on, the Catholic Church offers the Sacrament of Confirmation and this is usually received by 11th or 12th graders.

    Pope St. Leo I makes this relationship very clear. He compares the natural life of our bodies with the supernatural life of our souls. Baptism, he says, corresponds to our bodily BIRTH. Confirmation corresponds to our bodily GROWTH.

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    ANP

    Your question: "To you is the Bible the word of god or contains the word ???"

    My response:
    Please read the facts about the Bible that I have given in the article.

    The fulfillment of the prophecies is clear proof that the Prophets could not have made those prophecies unless it was divinely revealed to them.

    It is absolutely the Word of God.

    Not sure why you are asking again?

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    ANP,

    You have asked me to "first confirm all are born atheists. Is that the truth or a lie?"

    My response:
    Children born to religious parents are known to turn to atheism. Children born to atheists are known to embrace God.

    It is even more common to see adult atheists/evolutionists turn to God and to a smaller extent vice-versa.

    I believe that God has left his signature on each and everyone of us - from birth. Some try hard to erase that signature, but even if they don't succeed, it keeps haunting them. That is why atheists cannot keep God out of their lives.

    It is important to note that God does not interfere with free will - ultimately we make the choice.

    My response is based on the Bible says, "He has made everything beautiful in its time. HE HAS ALSO SET ETERNITY IN THE HEARTS OF MEN yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end."

    Here is how you confirm it. Mao, Stalin and others could not succeed to erase the notion of God from their people's mind.

    Why God has put it in our hearts, if we have free will? It is because He does not want to lose any soul for life with Him in eternity.

    Hope it answers your question. (Sorry, I saw it late.)

    Agree [2]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Continued .....

    Because of the perceived value of evolution in applications, there have been some expressions of support for evolution on the part of corporations. James McCarter of Divergence Incorporated stated that the work of 2001 Nobel Prize winner Leland Hartwell relied heavily on the use of evolutionary knowledge and predictions, both of which have significant implications for the treatment of cancers. Furthermore, McCarter concluded that 47 of the last 50 Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology depended on an understanding of evolutionary theory.

    Agree [1]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Oliver,

    Earlier you posted a quote about someone saying that evolution is of no scientific use. It is entirely incorrect.

    In fact, evolution is being put to practical use in industry and widely used on a daily basis by researchers in medicine, biochemistry, molecular biology, and genetics to both formulate hypotheses about biological systems for the purposes of experimental design, as well as to rationalise observed data and prepare applications. As of January 2016 there are 428,827 scientific papers in PubMed that mention 'evolution'. Pharmaceutical companies utilize biological evolution in their development of new products, and also use these medicines to combat evolving bacteria and viruses.

    Agree

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Sam,

    "I could be 100% wrong in what i believe is truth but that wont make what you say true"
    - In other words, if I am not right, nobody else is :) Excellent Zeitgeist

    How did you arrive at your conclusion - if I am not right, nobody else is. You didnt quote my comment fully.... next line goes ... even you have to provide evidence for you claim.

    So basically Evolution is a claim with evidence and creationism is a claim without evidence.

    Agree

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    On the matter of diseases and gene defects.

    Science has not been able to answer the root cause of any diseases or gene defect, other than diseases caused by micro-organisms.

    The Bible says it was caused when Adam and Eve sinned.

    Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Sin is rebellion against God. Our sin separates us from God, the creator and sustainer. Life is in God. So, when we sin and become separated from God, we don’t immediately experience physically death, but we become separated from TRUE LIFE.

    Romans 8:22-24 throws some light on what sin has lead to: “We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to son ship, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?”

    The 2nd LAW of Thermodynamics confirms this and opposes the theory of evolution which presupposes that life forms get better and move from a lower-to-higher order. The Law states: (1) As energy is transferred or transformed, more and more of it is wasted. (2) Further, there is a natural tendency of any isolated system to degenerate into a more disordered state.

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    One of the animals we are compared with is the chimpanzee to prove evolution is a fact. Because the difference between them and man is close to 2.5% by some estimates.

    Prima facie this is a small figure, but it is not! The human DNA is made up of some 3 billion codes. A difference of 2.5% translates to 62.5 million codes. Need I say this is huge?

    Here is another problem: mutation does not make any creature better. A single-gene disorder is the result of a single mutated gene. Over 4,000 human diseases are caused by single-gene defects. Down’s Syndrome, Cystic Fibrosis, etc., are few examples and none of these are progressive.

    Scientists claim that humans share 50% of their genes with bananas. We can all see what such a difference means. Has anyone even witnessed a banana that looks partially banana and another fruit? Or, a creature that looks 99% chimpanzee and 1% human? NOT YET.

    Why don't we see even the BEGINNING STAGES OF TRANSITION OF ONE LIFE FORM TO ANOTHER? WHY HAVE THEY INEXPLICABLY STOPPED, IF THEY HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE? AFTER ALL, WE OBSERVE MUTATIONS EVEN NOW.

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    You mentioned that the appendix in the human body is a vestigial organ is useless and shows lack of intelligence by its creator.

    MY RESPONSE:
    Are any organs really vestigial? Here is a headline from National Geographic News: Vestigial Organs Not So Useless After All, Studies Find.

    Actually it is not just the appendix that was considered a vestigial organ, but five. None of them are vestigial. Removal of these organs create serious problems ranging from a lowered ability to fight infections to causing cancer.

    Diseases such as cholera or amoebic dysentery would clear the gut of useful bacteria. The appendix's job is to reboot the digestive system in that case. The appendix “acts as a good safe house for bacteria,” said Duke surgery professor Bill Parker, a study co-author.

    We may not, as yet, know the purpose of everything, but even the tiniest of insect has a purpose.
    I think it is premature to conclude that anything that seems purposeless is a design fault by God.

    Some objects may not be useful to us, but they reflect the power and glory of God - like the stars.

    Agree [3]

  • sam, world

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    @ANP, Blur
    - What religion do you follow?
    - Any Tom, Dick, and Harry like the attendees in the heretical Jesus Seminar can say what they want. Can any of those attendees give eternal life?

    Agree [4]

  • sam, world

    Thu, Aug 18 2016

    @Zeitgeist, Mangalore
    “I had not mentioned prophecies but i did mention some savior/heroes that had similarities with JC.”

    - Zeitgeist, do you recollect this comment “You must also know that most of the saviour gods do have prophecies about them foretold.”
    - Are deceiving and deluding yourself as well as others?

    Agree [4]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Dear Zeitgeist , Mangalore,
    I quote yours: there are lot of similarities between JC and other mythological savior/heroes. And the other thing is that there is no historical proof that JC ever existed. Unquote.

    Yes. You can find lot of similarities and many history proofs prior to Jesus Christ. And while coming to Jesus you say Jesus was not existed. I can say Richard Dawikins exists today tomorrow and after few days I cannot say he will be existing because he is ill founded.
    SEE UNBIASED HISTORY WRITERS WROTE ABOUT THE EXISTANCE OF JESUS. AND WE ALL SAY JESUS WAS, IS AND EVER SHALL BE EXISTED TO SAVE THE GODLESS ATHEISTS.
    JESUS WAS THE EXISTED THE PRAJAPATHI IN THE HINDU MYTHOLOGY.
    Atheists were existed prior to thousands of years because God, Jesus was existed that is the reason God said in:
    Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. 
    Psalm 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
    Atheists will stop thinking when the Bible is given to them to read and to see the truth for their growth. Whereas how they can read, hear and perceive I quote 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Regret to say, you are attempting to deflect all the questions posed to you.
    I did not try to deflect the question. I just commented similar way like how you did it and just showed how ID does not answer some questions that really stick out like a sore thumb if ID was real.
    The fact is that you dont have a evidence for your prove your claim.

    Also, still waiting to see the "many prophecies about other saviors..."
    Ok i admit there are no prophecies about other savior like figures but there are lot of similarities between JC and other mythological savior/heroes. And the other thing is that there is no historical proof that JC ever existed.

    You have barely supported your own statements, but have so enthusiastically become the representative of Richard Dawkins. He himself is struggling to answer questions!

    Yes i am struggling with answers because i am honest with the things that i dont know and i say it so. I dont say like - this is the truth and this book says so.

    Agree

  • ANP, Blurb

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Bible quoting has become the norm of the day with quotes flying right and left.
    How many have studied the bible ?
    The authors
    Anonymity
    History
    Etc ?
    An eye opener is the Q ,.....IS THE BIBLE THE WORD OF GOD ....OR.....DOES IT CONTAIN THE WORD...YOU WILL BE SHOCKED AT THE ANSWER EITHER WAY .

    Agree [4]

  • ANP, Blur

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    MR.PHILLIP,
    SUGGEST YOU READ JESUS SEMINAR , AND THEN LETS DISCUSS.

    Agree [2]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Oliver,

    I had not mentioned prophecies but i did mention some savior/heroes that had similarities with JC.

    Agree

  • sam, world

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    @Zeitgeist
    "I could be 100% wrong in what i believe is truth but that wont make what you say true"
    - In other words, if I am not right, nobody else is :) Excellent Zeitgeist

    Agree [2]

  • Philip Pereira, Bangalore/U.K.

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    It requires greater faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is. If there is no God, what is it that an atheist is trying to disprove? Personally I would like to label atheists as agnostics who may one day know that there is God if they really seek to know.A great number of well known atheist in history have made this transition like Malcolm Magrdige, CS Lewis etc. All of us begin that way anyway. There are no born believers. And belief in God doesn't begin with evidence but faith. The evidence follows. Love in one's heart towards a child, spouse, parent or a friend is of the heart. The evidence follows what is in heart. Likewise seeking God is matter of heart and not of mind. The mind will eventually come to agreement with the heart as an inner experience as it does in every genuine human relationship. Christian faith is not a religion per se but a relationship with the creator through the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus said the knowledge of God is hidden from the wise and intellect but revealed to babes (Matthew 11:25) - people who humble like babes will know God.

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Regret to say, you are attempting to deflect all the questions posed to you. Also, still waiting to see the "many prophecies about other saviors..." You have barely supported your own statements, but have so enthusiastically become the representative of Richard Dawkins. He himself is struggling to answer questions!

    Unless you can provide answers, I think it is pointless to go on.

    Agree [5]

  • Zeitgeist , Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Part 3...

    The existence of unnecessary wings in flightless birds, e.g. ostriches

    Plants are green and not black, as chlorophyll absorbs green light poorly, even though black plants would absorb more light energy.

    Whales and dolphins breathe air, but live in the water, meaning they must swim to the surface frequently to breathe.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist , Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Part 2..

    The human appendix is a vestigial organ with no known purpose (suggested purposes are either unproven or incidental/non-essential) and no rious effects of its removal.[citation needed] However, appendicitis, an infection of this useless organ, is a certain death without medical intervention.

    Barely used nerves and muscles, such as the plantaris muscle of the foot,that are missing in part of the human population and are routinely harvested as spare parts if needed during operations. Another example is the muscles that move the ears, which some people can learn to control to a degree, but serve no purpose in any case .

    Almost all animals and plants synthesize their own vitamin C, but humans cannot because the gene for this enzyme is defective . Lack of vitamin C results in scurvy and eventually death.

    Crowded teeth and poor sinus drainage, as human faces are significantly flatter than those of other primates and humans share the same tooth set. This results in a number of problems, most notably with wisdom teeth, which can damage neighboring teeth or cause serious infections of the mouth.

    The structure of humans' eyes (as well as those of all vertebrates). The retina is 'inside out'. The nerves and blood vessels lie on the surface of the retina instead of behind it as is the case in many invertebrate species. This arrangement forces a number of complex adaptations and gives mammals a blind spot.

    Continued ... in part 3

    Agree [1]

  • Zeitgeist , Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Oliver,

    Now coming back to your claim that there is an intelligent design(ID) and living organisms would not have appeared by chance. So here are some points against your ID claim,

    Several flaws in the human design frequently result in death, especially without modern medical care:

    In the human female, a fertilized egg can implant into the fallopian tube, cervix or ovary rather than the uterus causing an ectopic pregnancy. The existence of a cavity between the ovary and the fallopian tube could indicate a flawed design in the female reproductive system. Prior to modern surgery, ectopic pregnancy invariably caused the deaths of both mother and baby. Even in modern times, in almost all cases the pregnancy must be aborted to save the life of the mother.

    In the human female, the birth canal passes through the pelvis. The prenatal skull will deform to a surprising extent. However, if the baby's head is significantly larger than the pelvic opening, the baby cannot be born naturally. Prior to the development of modern surgery (caesarean section), such a complication would lead to the death of the mother, the baby, or both.

    The existence of the pharynx, a passage used for both ingestion and respiration, with the consequent drastic increase in the risk of choking.

    Continued in part 2

    Agree [2]

  • Joseph F. Gonsalves, Bannur, Puttur / Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Dear brother Oliver Sutari, hats off well written and Congratulation.
    Topic well explained without confusion some people’s revolution and rebellion is Defamation.
    Majority humans on this planet earth don’t believe in un-proven theory Evolution .
    Jesus is, was and will be the way the truth and the life in human Resolution.
    From God the Father Jesus was begotten few pretending people have Forgotten.
    A town in USA is Manhattan, UK Statesman lord mountbatten Atheist’s thinking is Rotten.
    Jesus is both a man and divine, God made chaste women and man wonderfully I Opine.
    Creation of God is beautiful from swine to bovine can be transported in ship and Airline.
    A fool will say I am not a fool, atheists search holy bible and catch fish in swimming Pool.
    Immanuel, God with us, Jesus is from King David bloodline everybody to Define.
    Vengeance is mine says the Lord. Jesus will judge the Godless and killers to Confine.
    WE DO ACCEPT JESUS IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, IN JESUS WE HOPE TO SHINE.

    Agree [3]

  • Philip Pereira, Bangalore/U.K.

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Further to my previous post here is the partial quote from Romans: ''19 because that which is known about God is evident within them for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honour Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools.''
    Also read what King David had to say almost 3000 years back about not believing in God in Psalms 14:1.

    Agree [2]

  • Zeitgeist , Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Oliver,

    I would`nt mind so much if you, being a catholic yourself would have just accepted what is the Vatican`s position on the evolution. But your views differ a lot from their official position. You tend to accept the fallacious arguments of young earth creationists and intelligent design proponents. Please read what happened of the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case (Dover trial).

    Agree [1]

  • Zeitgeist , Mangalore

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Oliver,

    God is not the best explanation He is the only explanation.
    - Evidence my friend. Evidence. Creationist provide zero evidence for their claim. I could be 100% wrong in what i believe is truth but that wont make what you say true. You would have to still provide evidence for your claim.

    There is no other PLAUSIBILITY that works. Please don't distract readers from this beautiful word that you first came up with.
    - I said that to tell you the difference in what we think is PLAUSIBLE. All people have their own judgement about the plausibility of claims they face.

    Everything in the universe screams that there is a higher power, a higher intelligence.
    No it doesnt. If we reject scientific explanation of what we know, then you would have come up with explanation for every single thing.

    If I tell you the other religions are true, will you accept them? I have made a case for Christ, why don't you make a case for the religion you follow. Atheism and evolution are a kind of religious cults because they require blind faith. Christianity is a testable faith.

    - This is what religious people tend to do always say atheism is a cult. No it is not. Do you say people to dont believe in astrology are cultist?

    Atheism by definition is rejection of a claim regarding the existence of God or gods because there is no evidence to support that claim as made by theist. Thats it. There might be an atheist out there who believes in ghost, astrology or a flat earth.

    Agree [1]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Dear Readers,

    I thought I would share something light-hearted after all the bashing we have seen in the comments section.

    Religions girl: "Darling, let's go somewhere today, the sun is shining."

    Her Physicist/atheist boyfriend:
    “Actually, no. The sun may appear to be shining to you, but it does not shine. It gives off radiant energy in the form of heat and light. In fact using the formula (32 x 106) / (3.46 x 1016) = 9.25 x 10-10 where the area through which the sun’s radiation is pouring = 4 (pi) R2 = 3.46 x 1016 square miles only about -90.3 dB, or one billionth of the sun’s radiation reaches the earth. So ‘shining’ is not the word you should use.”

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    @Philip Pereira, Bangalore/U.K.

    Dear Philip,

    You have said it so beautifully about God transcending time.

    The problem of good and evil is one of the biggest thorns in the atheistic worldview.

    The world has seen the result of this thinking. I think it was the atheist Don Barker who said that a brain damaged child's thinking capacity is worse than that of a monkey.

    Jesus Christ, has given human beings dignity, tolerance, forgiveness.

    Atheist gods have given the world eugenics, genocide, gas chambers, the utmost cruel forms of testing on human beings and what not. In all just a handful have taken the lives of over 200 million people because they looked at them as parasites.

    Under the individual-rule system, where God's universal moral code is brushed aside, there have been nearly 60 million abortions since 1973 in USA alone.

    This is from a caricature of two animal characters:

    Senior: "Is it A RIGHT to remain ignorant?"

    Junior: "I don't know, but I REFUSE to find out"!

    Dawkins is particularly militant when he calls his followers to “mock them, ridicule them, in public … with contempt,” when they talk to Christians.

    Now imagine this guy in power with 20,000 killer soldiers at his command.

    Agree [3]

  • Chris, Tel Aviv

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
    John 10:18, Christ here claims he has the authority over his life and his death .please read the bible , it clear as day light

    Agree [5]

  • Anp, Blur

    Wed, Aug 17 2016

    Oliver,
    To you is the Bible the word of god or contains the word ???

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    These are some of the questions evolutionists have not been able to answer, except saying that it has happened over and over again. Of course, now that these questions are presented to you, they will probably no longer be in the “unable to answer” category. Please note, many of the honest admission are evolutionary scientists/professors themselves, not by Christians. I have picked these choice questions from the internet, but I am enumerating them so that the other readers should also know how “factual” or “evidence-based science” evolution is as claimed by evolutionists:

    1. How did life with hundreds of proteins originate just by chemistry without intelligent design?

    Evolutionist Professor Paul Davies admitted, “NOBODY knows how a mixture of lifeless chemicals spontaneously organized themselves into the first living cell.” Andrew Knoll, professor of biology, Harvard, said, “We don’t really know how life originated on this planet”. A minimal cell needs several hundred proteins. Even if every atom in the universe were an experiment with all the correct amino acids present for every possible molecular vibration in the supposed evolutionary age of the universe, not even one average-sized functional protein would form.
    Dawkins admitted the same thing, but his representative in India, Zeitgeist, knows better! The student has become the professor.

    Agree [5]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Part 2 of reply to Zeitgeist:

    2. How did the DNA code originate?
    The code is a sophisticated language system with letters and words where the meaning of the words is unrelated to the chemical properties of the letters - just as the information on this page is not a product of the chemical properties of the ink. What other coding system has existed without intelligent design? How did the DNA coding system arise without it being created?

    3. How could mutations - accidental copying mistakes (DNA ‘letters’ exchanged, d or added, genes duplicated, chromosome inversions, etc.) create the huge volumes of information in the DNA of living things? How could such errors create 3 billion letters of DNA information to change a microbe into a microbiologist?

    4. Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed? Richard Dawkins wrote, “Biology is the study of complicated things that have the appearance of having been designed with a purpose.” The problem for evolutionists is that living things show too much design. Who objects when an archaeologist says that pottery points to human design? Yet if someone attributes the design in living things to a designer, that is not acceptable.

    5. How did multi-cellular life originate? How did cells adapted to individual survival ‘learn’ to cooperate and specialize (including undergoing programmed cell death) to create complex plants and animals?

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Part 3 of reply to Zeitgeist:

    6. How did sex originate? Asexual reproduction gives up to twice as much reproductive success (‘fitness’) for the same resources as sexual reproduction, so how could the latter ever gain enough advantage to be ed? And how could mere physics and chemistry invent the complementary apparatuses needed at the same time (non-intelligent processes cannot plan for future coordination of male and female organs).

    7. Why are the (expected) countless millions of transitional fossils missing? Darwin noted the problem and it still remains. The evolutionary family trees in textbooks are based on imagination, not fossil evidence. Famous Harvard paleontologist (and evolutionist), Stephen Jay Gould, wrote, “The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology”. Other evolutionist fossil experts also acknowledge the problem.

    8. How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years, if evolution has changed worms into humans in the same time frame? Professor Gould wrote, “The maintenance of stability within species must be considered as a major evolutionary problem.”

    9. How did blind chemistry create mind/ intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality?

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Part 4 of reply to Zeitgeist:

    10. Where are the scientific breakthroughs due to evolution? Dr. Marc Kirschner, chair of the Department of Systems Biology, Harvard Medical School, stated: “In fact, over the last 100 years, almost all of biology has proceeded independent of evolution, except evolutionary biology itself. Molecular biology, biochemistry, physiology, have not taken evolution into account at all.” Dr Skell wrote, “It is our knowledge of how these organisms actually operate, not speculations about how they may have arisen millions of years ago, that is essential to doctors, veterinarians, farmers … .” Evolution actually hinders medical discovery.

    11. Science involves experimenting to figure out how things work how they operate. Why is evolution, a theory about history, taught as if it is the same as this operational science? You cannot do experiments, or even observe what happened, in the past. Asked if evolution has been observed, Richard Dawkins said, “Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening.” The pope of atheism got it all jumbled up again. If it has not been observed while happening, how do you know it has been observed?

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Final part of reply to Zeitgeist:

    12. Why is a fundamentally religious idea, a dogmatic belief system that fails to explain the evidence, taught in science classes? Karl Popper, famous philosopher of science, said “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical [religious] research program…” Michael Ruse, evolutionist science philosopher admitted, “Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.”

    Agree [5]

  • Philip Pereira, Bangalore/U.K.

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    The word 'God' means ever existent. The question, 'who made God' is meaningless. As finite beings we think in terms of beginning and end, but not with God. He has always been and will always be.As regards to His existence, without getting into the debate of creationist and evolutionist, we all agree there being evil all around that can only be defined in terms of existence of good. Good or evil can only defined in terms of existence of a moral law. Without a doubt, that demands a moral law giver. At home or school or society or country of a company good and bad is defined by a moral law giver. Likewise in the universe that we live in there is a absolute moral law giver who is God. To say there is no God would then mean there is nothing called moral law and therefore it doesn't matter how every one lives. Then there is nothing called good or bad. When we don't believe in a absolute moral law giver, good and bad can become subjective. Like someone once said, in a certain tribe you love your neighbour but in other you eat your neighbour. How do you prove there is God? I would direct you to what Paul wrote 2000 years back in Romans 1:18-32. Will quote in another post due to size restrictions heres

    Agree [4]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    God is not the best explanation He is the only explanation. There is no other PLAUSIBILITY that works. Please don't distract readers from this beautiful word that you first came up with.

    Everything in the universe screams that there is a higher power, a higher intelligence.

    If I tell you the other religions are true, will you accept them? I have made a case for Christ, why don't you make a case for the religion you follow. Atheism and evolution are a kind of religious cults because they require blind faith. Christianity is a testable faith.

    So, again, who came first, the human male, or a human female? I'm still waiting. By the way, the pope of atheism (Dawkins) could not answer this. I really believed that as his representative you would come up with something.


    Why is God the best explanation for that for the existence of Universe and Origin of life? Will you explain, please?

    The other thing is that whatever your argument it only says one thing, i.e, the religion that you were born/practice into is true. What about other religions? Are they false?

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Your comment is misleading, therefore, does not qualify for an answer.

    You still have not answered, what prophecies were made about other saviours and who made them when you made that comment after reading Part 1 of the article. Please quote those prophecies. Can't wait!


    -
    5000 years of history? If you consider bible as historical record then i have consider all other religious text as historical text as well.

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Really, is that all you have got? I recommend you read the Bible further. Please don't create the impression that that is all the Bible says about the number of children.

    I have seen this so many times in debates between Christians and atheists. Even if the debate is between creation and evolution, the moment the evolutionists have their back against the wall, the start ridiculing the contents in the Bible - just as you have. And just as you have, they never talk about the context, but pick a few verses here and there.


    -
    Man and women were created in the beginning. then they had two sons. one killed the other. then?

    let me continue..... all remaining three went extinct.

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Likewise, where did the first particle of matter come from poses a lot of difficulties for the evolutionists/atheists. Yes, there is such a term.

    It was the pope of atheism who said, nothing is not really nothing, it is something... Wow! That really sounds scientific. Any 1st grader will tell you it is a lie.

    If you think Christians take everything on faith, then e/a's do too. There is not a shred of evidence in what they say.

    -

    ''the postulate of a designer or creator only raises the unanswerable question of who designed the designer or created the creator. Religion and theology… have consistently failed to overcome this objection''
    -Christopher Hitchens

    Agree [2]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Oliver,

    Evolutionists find it hard to believe 5,000 years of history, but quite surprisingly have no problem when they are told something happened 160 million years ago.

    5000 years of history? If you consider bible as historical record then i have consider all other religious text as historical text as well.

    And there is nothing called Evolutionist or Big Bangers. Its same way like there are no Sphere Earthers(those who believe earth is sphere) or Heliocentrist (those who believe that sun is at the center of solar system). I like to refer myself as realist (person to believes in a real world as it really is)

    Agree [4]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    ''If you count the stars with your naked eyes from every corner of the earth, SCIENTISTS say it will be within 4000 in number. Today it is common knowledge that stars are countless. You may call the verse a fluke, but really? Come on, give some credit here to God because there is no way the author could know it 3,500 years ago, unless he owned the Hubble Telescope then, or God had revealed it to him. ''

    Did you ever think whether they meant 4000 as countless? or countless as infinite? Actually speaking stars are not countless. They are finite. so there is a certain exact number of stars that are present in the universe. Since your book has all the answers it must have that number also.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Oliver,

    Man and women were created in the beginning. then they had two sons. one killed the other. then?

    let me continue..... all remaining three went extinct.

    Agree [4]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Oliver,

    I have only one question for you for all things that you mentioned in your last three comments.

    Why is God the best explanation for that for the existence of Universe and Origin of life? Will you explain, please?

    The other thing is that whatever your argument it only says one thing, i.e, the religion that you were born/practice into is true. What about other religions? Are they false?

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    ''the postulate of a designer or creator only raises the unanswerable question of who designed the designer or created the creator. Religion and theology… have consistently failed to overcome this objection''
    -Christopher Hitchens

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Christians believe we came from humans evolutionists believe they came from soup that was miraculously formed from the Big Bang some 14 billion years ago. Evolutionists find it hard to believe 5,000 years of history, but quite surprisingly have no problem when they are told something happened 160 million years ago. O yeah, they were there! Please don’t even try to come up with the so called dating methods. Save it for someone who does not know the truth behind any and all dating methods.

    There are many verses in the Bible that science has confirmed – but, please note it is not a Science Encyclopedia! Allow me one more. “I will multiply your descendants beyond number, like the stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore.” This is from Genesis 22:17 written about 3,500 years ago.

    If you count the stars with your naked eyes from every corner of the earth, SCIENTISTS say it will be within 4,000 in number. Today it is common knowledge that stars are countless. You may call the verse a fluke, but really? Come on, give some credit here to God because there is no way the author could know it 3,500 years ago, unless he owned the Hubble Telescope then, or God had revealed it to him.

    You asked, if there is a Creator who made the Creator? The evolutionist’s position is that matter came from nothing. Why can’t God then come from nothing and why can’t He produce something from nothing? If matter came from matter, where did the original matter come from?

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Let me elaborate an example I had given before, even though I have seen you have ignored a lot of questions put to you. SCIENTISTS have confirmed that a single cell is too complex for it to have come by chance. Because it contains enzymes, many types of proteins, a replicating system, a nutrition delivery system, a ‘firewall’ to protect itself, a self-destruct system when it is time for it to be replaced, and so on and so forth. In fact, they say the entire computer systems of a city like New York pales in comparison to a single cell. Now, multiply that with approximately 75-100 trillion cells in the human body.

    No wonder the Bible says in Psalms 139-14, “I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.” Science admits this fact and Christians are now beginning to understand this verse – it was written about 3000 years ago. What amazes me is this: how could this be known to the Psalmist back then? Well, we Christians know the answer – the Bible is the spoken Word of God!

    HERE’S A BIGGER DILEMMA FOR EVOLUTIONISTS: ENZYMES CANNOT BE MADE WITHOUT PROTEINS, AND PROTEINS CANNOT BE MADE WITHOUT ENZYMES. It’s like your chicken first or egg first dilemma. I would like to call it your man first or your woman first dilemma! Not for Christians because the Bible says God made them man and woman in the beginning.

    Agree [3]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    Can anyone prove physically that God exists? No. Can you prove the Big Bang? No. Can you prove evolution? No. So, how do we really decide? In your own words – plausibility!

    There is a plethora of evidence that evolution did not take place and not because of the reasons you have stated. In fact, because evolutionists cannot answer if the man or the woman came first, or how something that did not have a heart, suddenly got a heart, they use the one escape hatch they have: it took millions and millions of years. Even a few thousand years pose a problem for a man waiting for his lady love, don’t you think? I know if I was the first man, I would be extinct waiting for my lady love to come by chance through some other creature evolving into her. Let’s see what else evolutionists say when they are confronted with the male and female question. They say creatures were self-producing. So a human male kept self-producing human male babies for millions of years, until one day he self-produced a human female baby? And in which part of the body were babies growing in the human male?

    Agree [3]

  • Anp, Blur

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Ollly,
    First you confirm all are born atheists
    Is that the truth or a lie ? .
    Regards

    Agree [10]

  • Johnni D. Monthu, Mlutu

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    John 3:3 Why R.C. church do not practice ? Practicing of Child baptism is not biblical ?. Why R.C. do not defend Born Again concept ? A humble reply is sought and not argumentative of abomination and devilish.

    Agree [2]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Creationist always attack theory of evolution on the gaps that could not be answered. They themselves provide zero evidence to prove their claim yet they assume that we have to accept them at a face value. They only question the theory of evolution because we cannot test it in the real world because of the time frame involved. Evolution does happen in smaller organisms but then they try to classify as Miro and Macro, then claim that macro evolution does not happen.

    Creationist are never going to accept evolution because we cannot provide enough evidence for them to do so. Its the similar case with the Flat earthers. In spite of overwhelming evidence against flat earth theory there are people discrediting any evidence that earth is sphere.

    From thousands of years any gaps on understanding of the nature were filled up with gods. Most have been eliminated because of increased in understanding of nature. Thats why Zues and Thor have taken retirement these days.

    Even if tomorrow, lifeforms are found to exist on any place other than earth, creationist would come up with some excuse to fit their beliefs.

    Creationists biggest attack against the big bang theory is that something can come from nothing is false therefore there must be a creator. Then they fail see to fallacy of their own logic - so who created the creator?

    Agree [6]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Dan S. Ron, M'luru (comments appearing in Part 1)...

    "Only a suggestion. Oliver, you have written a lengthy article but could have been made it short for a lively reading made it in your own language of conviction."
    -

    Dear Dan,

    This is as difficult to answer as it was to write the article. The article is necessarily lengthy (still not as lengthy as books written on Jesus) because I felt the need to use analogies. I could make the article very short, but that would be just repeating facts about Him without explaining anything.

    Unless I have quoted other writers, the style I have used is mine. My vocabulary is not as great as the many writers out there, but I find that I can reach more people by using my own simple style. (The greatest book - in my opinion - written on Christ is the Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen. I know a lot of people who cannot go past 20 pages because they cannot read a single page without having to look up the dictionary at least 10 times.)

    I appreciate your comments. Thank you.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    Religion started when world`s first con man met world`s first fool.

    Agree [7]

  • StupidAtheist.com,

    Tue, Aug 16 2016

    "First thing first, there is one God."

    Tell Him that. He's purported to have ordered us all to worship only Him to the exclusion of the others.

    "I'm the only God, ignore the rest of them" sounds more than a little schizophrenic, does it not...?

    Agree [1]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    @ANP

    On what basis do you determine a lie from the truth?

    I could easily say atheists and evolutionists are lying. Without evidence neither statement has any value.

    Instead of making a crass, off-the-cuff remark, it's better to VALIDATE your statement - at least that is what maturity demands.

    I have written many pages explaining why I believe in what I believe. Don't you think it is courteous to rebut it in a like manner? I am open minded and will step into the shoes of an atheist if proven wrong.

    Agree [4]

  • H.A. D'Souza, Damoh

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    Zeitgeist Sir,
    The soil in the moon is not fertile.There is no lightning always and if some one die from lightning no problem how long we will live in this world ? Volcanoes earthquakes are part of this Universe as mentioned in Bible. I cannot stop traveling in Bus,Train fearing that it may end with accident.For simple reasons denying creator is foolishness.God always protect us whoever calls on him and bless us what we do.It better to simply believing him instead of unnecessary arguing.Who given wisdom to birds build their nest they are not learned from engineering collage.

    Agree [9]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    @Anil Goveas

    It would help if you could explain what you are really trying get at!

    A grand buffet, instead of just curry and rice, does not prove there is no chef!

    But, again, perhaps you could explain what is it that you are really trying to say.

    -
    Anil goveas, Bejai

    If God created the earth and life on earth...

    Agree [2]

  • ANP, Blur

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    We are all Born Atheists..................
    UNTIL..........
    Someone starts telling us lies !

    Agree [15]

  • Anil goveas, Bejai

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    If God created the earth and life on earth , then why did he create the planets which have no connection with us. why are comets moving around. If our life is confined to earth then why the universe? we on the earth have nothing to do with the it.

    Agree [3]

  • Frank, Tulunadu State of India

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    Such books are in hoards, they may be interesting to you not necessarily everyone.

    Agree

  • Frank, Tulunadu State of India

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    Dear H. A. Dsouza, the reasons given by you can be accepted only by people suffering from pre-conceived notions ( which is an overwhelming majority in this world). I believe in God not for the reasons you have given. The reasons given by you are fallacious in nature.

    Agree [1]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    H.A. D'Souza,

    Now please explain this,

    Why is there soil on mars? also on moon? why?
    Why do we have tides?
    Why do we have lightening? they are basically dangerous for us.
    Why do we have volcanoes?
    Why do we have earthquakes?

    You will find answers for these questions. But i dont want those scientifically proven answers. I want you to explain without bringing up science.

    Agree [6]

  • Frank, Tulunadu State of India

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    Dear Mr. Sutari, congrats on taking the path of preaching about Jesus and Gospels. You are basically a faith oriented thinker which I can see based on your articles. That is true about all the religious leaders and scholars of religion. The biggest problem with the faith oriented thinkers is that they are narrow minded and one sided thinkers. This is the problem with faith oriented thinkers. Invariably you are correct and those who do not agree with you are wrong. It is true with all the religionists and not necessarily you alone. Please remember your counter parts too think the same.

    Agree

  • H.A. D'Souza, Damoh

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    If we say there is no God it is a rebellion.We can see God's wonderful creation everywhere.Why soil is on the surface of the earth because so that we can cultivate, also why rain comes in s ? If rain falls with out s every thing will vanish. Why we are in mothers womb for 9 months why scientist cannot reduce this period.Pl see coconut fruit how it is designed perfectly so that when it fall from height the inner part should not be damaged.We can see so many evidence in nature that there is creator.

    Lord Jesus came to this world give us God's love to entire humanity and shown us how to live a good life.

    Agree [6]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    "even when those scientists say that we are a product of the big bang of which there is absolutely no evidence."
    All the evidence that humans have now points towards to Big Bang Theory.

    plausibility of an intelligent designer/creator outweighs that of creation coming by chance.
    - You have got this opposite. This is where our thinking differs. Its all in what we think is plausible. You may try to put a creator up there as a explanation but then you would have to explain everything to fit your narrative. Let me start - Humans are complex being, hence could be possible to appear by chance. So humans must have been created by a creator. Now answer this Who created the creator?

    Also, the atheist/evolution worldview cannot explain moral reasoning. But, they say it can come from random chemicals coming together. Physical chemicals producing metaphysical responses?
    -Morality is relative. So thats out of the window.

    I look to the day when a tiger will tell its mate, "I love you darling!" The tiger has been around for may be millions of years (as per evolutionists), I wonder if it is time for it to sing as well!
    - This type of argument is silly to begin with. Evolution does not have an end goal. We have evolved to what we are due to environmental pressures. Tigers living today evolved today are evolved to be apex predators. They dont need to sing. They are the best at what they do.

    Agree [3]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    PEDDU,

    ZIETHIEST !! WHY THE PEOPLE ALWAYS ATTACKED ON SOFT TARGETS ! CAN ANY ATHEIST QUESTION TO ZN PEACE TV ON A OPEN FORUM AS HE CLAIMS HIS RELIGION IS ABOVE ALL AND SUPREME ON EARTH, MOREOVER WHICH IS VERY SCIENTIFIC AND IN FACT ALL THE SCIENCE DERIVED FROM THE HOLY BOOK.
    - Islamic preachers really dont attack science that much.

    YOUR BODY ITSELF A MIRACLE WHICH IS NOT BUILD BY A MECHANIC OR ENGINEER OR ANY SCIENCE OR SCIENTIST.
    - Living organisms need not be created by anything or anybody. Everything forms on its own and dies(including stars).

    IF YOUR SCIENCE BELIEVES IN FACTS NOT FICTIONS WHY TILL THE DATE THERE IS NO ANSWER FOUND !!
    - This is GOD of the gaps argument.
    If you go back 200 years, how many things did we humans knew? If you go thousand years into the future the humans of that time will considerably more than what the humans know now.

    WHY SOME OF THE DISEASE ARE NOT CURED BY THE SCIENCE AND FAILED TO FIND A PROPER MEDICINE !!
    So according to you if we dont have cure for all the diseases, then you assume that the science has failed?
    Do you think we have achieved maximum scientific advancement possible?

    The other thing is that why do people attack origin of life and universe the most? Simply because we cannot possibly know for sure about it. Why doesnt anyone argue against scientific explanation for Lightening, earthquakes, tides etc.

    Agree [4]

  • George Pinto, Udupi

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    Books by Richard Dawkins, ie God Delusion, The selfish Gene , The magic of reality , The greatest show on earth make wonderful reading.
    The author of this article must read these books before dragging the names of these authors in this article.

    Agree

  • sam, world

    Mon, Aug 15 2016

    @Zeitgeist, Mangalore
    “Of course, life came after big bang. Life on earth could only begin only after earth was formed that is 4.5 billion years ago.”
    - Why?

    “We humans have not yet achieved the level of understanding the universe. Slowly we are getting there.”
    - Without understanding, you believe? This is very surprising Zeitgeist!

    BTW, have you still found who are the other saviour Gods? and who wrote those prophecies? What did those prophecies foretell and what was the messiah supposed to do?

    Agree [3]

  • PEDDU, MANGALURU

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    ZIETHIEST !! WHY THE PEOPLE ALWAYS ATTACKED ON SOFT TARGETS ! CAN ANY ATHEIST QUESTION TO ZN PEACE TV ON A OPEN FORUM AS HE CLAIMS HIS RELIGION IS ABOVE ALL AND SUPREME ON EARTH, MOREOVER WHICH IS VERY SCIENTIFIC AND IN FACT ALL THE SCIENCE DERIVED FROM THE HOLY BOOK.

    YOUR BODY ITSELF A MIRACLE WHICH IS NOT BUILD BY A MECHANIC OR ENGINEER OR ANY SCIENCE OR SCIENTIST

    IF YOUR SCIENCE BELIEVES IN FACTS NOT FICTIONS WHY TILL THE DATE THERE IS NO ANSWER FOUND !!

    WHY SOME OF THE DISEASE ARE NOT CURED BY THE SCIENCE AND FAILED TO FIND A PROPER MEDICINE !!

    Agree [4]

  • John Tauro, M'luru / Kwt

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Mr. Zeitgeist,
    Further I’d like to suggest to read the book, "Life – How it began? Evolution or Creation?" It’s available with The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, No. 927/1, Addevishwanathapura, Rajanukunte, Bengaluru-560064/ Phone: 080-23092400. I too had doubts about the existence of God, who once to me was an imaginary being or an just an illusion. But now I am fully convinced about His existence. This logically written book has been highly acclaimed by scientists.

    Agree [2]

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    "When people hear the word scientist or science, they believe everything coming from their mouth, is the truth.

    I forgot to add to the above, "even when those scientists say that we are a product of the big bang of which there is absolutely no evidence."

    You are right in using the word plausibility, but you will see that the plausibility of an intelligent designer/creator outweighs that of creation coming by chance.

    Let alone the universe, let alone the human body - just the composition of one cell and its functioning is far, far more complex than the human mind can grasp.

    Also, the atheist/evolution worldview cannot explain moral reasoning. But, they say it can come from random chemicals coming together. Physical chemicals producing metaphysical responses?

    I look to the day when a tiger will tell its mate, "I love you darling!" The tiger has been around for may be millions of years (as per evolutionists), I wonder if it is time for it to sing as well!

    Agree [3]

  • sam, world

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    @Zeitgeist, Mangalore
    “Of course, life came after big bang. Life on earth could only begin only after earth was formed that is 4.5 billion years ago.”
    - Why?

    “We humans have not yet achieved the level of understanding the universe. Slowly we are getting there.”
    - Without understanding, you believe? This is very surprising Zeitgeist!

    BTW, have you still found who are the other saviour Gods? and who wrote those prophecies? What did those prophecies foretell and what was the messiah supposed to do?

    Agree

  • Oliver Sutari, Kuthyar, Karnataka

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Zeitgeist,

    If you have any questions, absolutely any questions, on whether the universe was created by God, or it evolved with the explosion of NOTHING, please look IN-DEPTH at www.creation.com

    What will surprise you FIRST is that people who write for this website and give talks are SCIENTISTS! Believe me!

    I truly believe there is no question that these scientists have not answered.

    When people hear the word scientist or science, they believe everything coming from their mouth, is the truth. (I know you are different, you question everything.)

    Also, you may want to watch on YouTube videos by Kent Hovind. Watch him talk about the age of the earth and see if you can stand his arguments. As a bonus, he will also make you laugh! I know he makes me laugh even as he goes about refuting with scientific data the false billions-of-years claim.

    I know of a lady who strongly believed in evolution, until she held her first-born in her hands. She knew right then that it was God's handiwork. Different people are touched differently.

    If you have already looked at www.creation.com and listed to Kent Hovind, then there is nothing more I can offer on this subject to you.

    Agree [6]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    A. S. Mathew,

    I am not representing all Atheist. Just Richard Dawkins only on this article. Cause he cant represent himself over here.

    Agree [7]

  • Anp, Blur

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Mathew, you commented on Irani failing to remove Christmas as a holiday in India.
    BUT
    You have not mentioned that THE US has not failed to remove your book, from schools !
    As it goes against the constitution !!!

    Agree [8]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    To a question posed by a Liberty University student to Richard Dawkins: What if you're wrong?

    Richard Dawkins: "Well, what if I'm wrong, I mean... anybody could be wrong. We could all be wrong about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Pink Unicorn and the flying teapot. Uhm, you happen to have been brought up, I would presume, in the Christian faith. You know what it's like to not believe in a particular faith because you're not a Muslim. You're not a Hindu. Why aren't you a Hindu? Because you happen to have been brought up in America, not in India. If you had of been brought up in India, you'd be a Hindu. If you had been brought up in... in uh.. Denmark in the time of the Vikings you'd be believing in Wotan and Thor. If you were brought up in classical Greece you'd be believing in, in Zeus. If you were brought up in central Africa you'd be believing in the great Juju up the mountain. There's no particular reason to pick on the Judeo-Christian god, in which by the sheerest accident you happen to have been brought up and, and ask me the question, "What if I'm wrong?" What if you're wrong about the great Juju at the bottom of the sea?"

    Agree [2]

  • A. S. Mathew, U.S.A.

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Zeitgeist: You are indeed going to represent all the atheists and agnostics of the world in India.

    When you have time, try to get some books written by Malcom Muggeride and C. S. Louis. One day, you will be contradicting your own statements.

    Agree [6]

  • Anp, Blur

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Very good article ....but
    The last para says,..he never called upon God to perform a miracle !
    He himself in your book ,was raised by the father (god),
    He did not raise Lazarus , he thanked god For that

    Agree [9]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Oliver,

    Its really easy to attack science, but i will ask you some questions let me know why is it so.

    1. Why is not that earth created as geocentric? why does the earth orbit around sun?

    2. Why is moon drifting away from earth. It could have been better if moon orbited at exact distance with out any variance.

    3. What is the point of having planets or any objects beyond saturn.

    4. Why do the stars have planets revolving them. they would be pointless since they dont serve any purpose to us.

    5. Why does earth have a molten core. Of course earths core generates magnetic fields that protect earth from suns radiation. But still, why have it, if someone would magically protect earth.

    6.Why is there a plate tectonics?

    7.Why is there a gravity? why is it linked with a mass of an object. Such a force should have just been there without any reason.

    8. Can you explain why universe is expanding. If it was created it have no reason to expand.

    Agree [7]

  • Zeitgeist, Mangalore

    Sun, Aug 14 2016

    Wow,... Another article.. this time attacking Richard Dawkins, the pope of atheists.

    Since Richard Dawkins cannot post comments over here i am going to represent him over here.

    ''Dawkins and people like him who play the same atheistic tune should know that everything they call scientific is not what they themselves have seen or touched.''
    - Science does not care about anything. It just cares about evidence. We dont have luxury of time travel to see everything since the birth of the universe. If we had that ability we would not have this article in first place.

    ''Dawkins admits that he has no clue of the origin of life and yet he insists that life came after the big bang. Mr. Dawkins, if you are an honest person, you will soon see it is atheism that requires blind faith, not Christianity.''
    - Of course, life came after big bang. Life on earth could only begin only after earth was formed that is 4.5 billion years ago. Believing in science is not blind faith. Its belief in what is plausible. We humans have not yet achieved the level of understanding the universe. Slowly we are getting there.

    Agree [7]

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Title : The Way, The Truth & The Life: Testing Jesus Christ - Part 2


 
 
 
 

 
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